Consulting Career Advice- Is My Company Shafting Me?

[JohnnyHumongous]

Some context for anyone who didn't read my thread from way back when about whether I should be a pro poker player or take a job at a management consulting firm. I started the consulting gig about a month and a half ago. Basically while I'm working here I am "eating it" in terms of income, as total compensation for the year will be 75K plus bennies, compared to several hundred thousand if I played cards full-time. But I tell myself, it is a good decision because after 2 or 3 years here I will have developed a great deal of terrific business experience and a diverse skillset. Future opportunities in other fields of business, getting an MBA at a top 5 school, or entrepreneurship would all be wide-open doors. So, the tradeoff will be worth it.

Well I just found out that my firm wants me to work at their sister firm for one full year, where I would be involved in trading and arbitrage activities. Basically I would do a lot of coding, database work and assist in placing the firm's positions in the market (they only operate in one specific market). The pay would stay the same.

This is definitely not the job I signed on to do, but it's been made clear that I don't have a choice in the matter. I turned down other consulting firms to work at this one, and I can't help but feel like I'm getting screwed over. What I want to know is, how bad is this tradeoff for a guy like me who isn't in it at this job for the salary, but instead the business education and career development? I can't help but feel that trading is much worse in both these areas. is this year in trading going to look worse on my resume than if it were to have been a year of strategy consulting? How much worse? Any input on the perceived pros and cons of this year in trading would be most appreciated. If push comes to shove I won't hesitate to walk from the job, but this isn't really in the realm of consideration (at least not quite yet).

[send_the_msg]

you should play poker and ship me that 75k salary every year

[kenberman]

you shouldn't look down on trading, in and of itself. it can be a great career, and lead to lucrative and interesting opportunities down the road in the capital markets world.

that said, it is much different than strategy consulting. consulting can be a great route towards senior mgmt positions in a variety of companies, or climbing the ladder at a given consulting firm.

if you KNOW that sales/trading/capital markets is not what you want to do, then I would be concerned. if not, then I would take the new position, and give it a test drive.

either way, you'll be well positioned to go to b school.

For what it's worth, I did consulting for 4 years and then went to a top 5 MBA program. Just having the consulting on your resume is very valuable and you can spin any type of assignment to look great on your applications.

[Ulysses]

Long-term, this is very likely to be a positive rather than a negative. It will expand the range of entrepeneurial things you will be qualified to do and it will give you more breadth, making you look better to b-schools and prospective employers.

[jaydub]

Well, first off. If you passed up a several hundred thousand per year opportunity for a 75K per year one, it was a mistake. I'm assuming you are using a rational definition of several; eg greater than a few and thus 400-600K+. If you truly had such a choice, which incidentally I highly doubt, you [censored] up. I hope you see why and if not I can elaborate.

Second, you appear to want to get some experience is business consulting, great, it's a wonderful line of work. As you have found out, when getting started in it, you get the [censored] work. Common sense. Decide if that [censored] work will help you learn valuable skills needed to move up, if not, assess your other parallel choices. It sounds like you view the next year as a waste of time so you should probably assess other opportunities and then speak to your management. Be warned, entry level employees in this line of work tend to be rather dispensible and companies focus heavily on new grads from tier 1 schools.

They've changed the terms of your employment. But you don't have a contract so you're screwed.

Can you honestly say you've done your present job well. Have you been getting positive feedback about your performance? Don't BS yourself. If you were the employer how would you view your performance?

Do you know your boss well enough to be able to talk to him about the change? Tell him you're not complaining, you'd just like to know why the decision was made. Is it because you've not been doing what or as well as, they'd expected? How can you improve if they're dissatisfied?

Maybe the company is changing it's focus? If you look like a "comer" they may feel you'll be a bigger asset if you get good at trading and arbitrage. Maybe the sister company is a little weak and they think you might help plug a leak or two.

One suggestion for the next job (and there will be another), confirm anything important said to you during each step of the interview process. Just a note thanking the person for the meeting and touching on the points you discussed and your interpretation of what was said. It's not a contract but it helps keep the air clear and cut back on a lot of possible misunderstandings.

[Dominic]

simple:

you're not in it for the money, but for the experience, right? They're not giving you the experience you signed on for.
You can probably get a position at one of the other firms you interviewed with.
And you can play poker to earn your keep.

Tell them in no uncertain terms that what they want you to do is not what you want to be doing, nor is it the job you accepted in the first place.

Tell them no. If they show you the door, know that you stood up for yourself and that you can do better.

[astroglide]

having a job doesn't prevent you from playing poker. i don't know of anybody that plays "for a living" that puts in assloads of hours. i work full time and play around 50 hours per month.

[JohnnyHumongous]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, first off. If you passed up a several hundred thousand per year opportunity for a 75K per year one, it was a mistake. I'm assuming you are using a rational definition of several; eg greater than a few and thus 400-600K+. If you truly had such a choice, which incidentally I highly doubt, you [censored] up. I hope you see why and if not I can elaborate.

Second, you appear to want to get some experience is business consulting, great, it's a wonderful line of work. As you have found out, when getting started in it, you get the [censored] work. Common sense. Decide if that [censored] work will help you learn valuable skills needed to move up, if not, assess your other parallel choices. It sounds like you view the next year as a waste of time so you should probably assess other opportunities and then speak to your management. Be warned, entry level employees in this line of work tend to be rather dispensible and companies focus heavily on new grads from tier 1 schools.

[/ QUOTE ]

By several I meant 250-500K, and that's assuming I continue playing and doing well at present limits, 4 to 6-tabling 10/20 and 20/40 SH, and I would assume of course that playing full-time I would work my way up to higher limits too, so that final end-of-year figure is tough to predict and could definitely vary.

I asked a long time ago on these boards if people thought it was a better move to take the job or play poker, and the almost unanimous response from over 100 posters was that the job was better, and I tend to agree. First off, I can still play in my spare time, and if I log 10-15 hours per week that's gonna be a tidy chunk of change at the end of the year. Second, being a poker player exclusively is not what I would call a fulfilling life; getting business experience, on the other hand, prepares me to start my own business or work in a meaningful career in industries I like for the rest of my life.

Also, the VPs at my firm make over 7 figures, and the time from Analyst to VP (if one were to stay at the firm and move up the ladder at a typical pace) would probably be about 10-12 years. So by around age 34 you'd be a partner at the firm making over a million per year and have the skillset and resume to find other 7 figure jobs in other industries if you were so inclined; in fact, you'd probably never make less than a million per year for the rest of your employed life. And working 50-60 hours per week at an office job is much less stressful than 30-40 hours grinding on the internet.

Anyways, just some comments about the choice I made.

[canis582]

OOT IS NOT THE BRAGGING FORUM. DO YOUR JOB AND STFU.

[Roland19]

[ QUOTE ]
OOT IS NOT THE BRAGGING FORUM. DO YOUR JOB AND STFU.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Vavavoom]

[ QUOTE ]
having a job doesn't prevent you from playing poker. i don't know of anybody that plays "for a living" that puts in assloads of hours. i work full time and play around 50 hours per month.

[/ QUOTE ]

[DiamondDave]

A friend of mine interviewed with a consulting firm. They called her back, told her to come in again, told her that she was hired, let her bask for a few minutes, ... , and them mentioned that the opening is in New Jersey. (We live in the Bay Area.) She did not take the job. I would not have been as gracious as she was in turning it down.

[ChipWrecked]

[ QUOTE ]
They've changed the terms of your employment. But you don't have a contract so you're screwed.



[/ QUOTE ]

[jaydub]

[ QUOTE ]


By several I meant 250-500K and that's assuming I continue playing and doing well at present limits, 4 to 6-tabling 10/20 and 20/40 SH, and I would assume of course that playing full-time I would work my way up to higher limits too, so that final end-of-year figure is tough to predict and could definitely vary.


[/ QUOTE ]

You assume a helluva lot. No wonder people advised you to take the job.

[ QUOTE ]

Also, the VPs at my firm make over 7 figures, and the time from Analyst to VP (if one were to stay at the firm and move up the ladder at a typical pace) would probably be about 10-12 years. So by around age 34 you'd be a partner at the firm making over a million per year and have the skillset and resume to find other 7 figure jobs in other industries if you were so inclined; in fact, you'd probably never make less than a million per year for the rest of your employed life.


[/ QUOTE ]

Wow you really do assume a lot. You're a shoe in to become partner and a millionaire in no time. One question, how many analysts are there compared to vps?

[ QUOTE ]

And working 50-60 hours per week at an office job is much less stressful than 30-40 hours grinding on the internet.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, not always.

[JohnnyHumongous]

[ QUOTE ]

Wow you really do assume a lot. You're a shoe in to become partner and a millionaire in no time. One question, how many analysts are there compared to vps?


[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I don't understand the snide nitpicking nature of your reply. I am openly discussing aspects of my life with neither arrogance nor pessimism. I gain nothing from either. I am trying to make the best rational choices I can with my life. If I aim big, is that okay with you?

Frankly, you are the one making assumptions about what I am saying in my post. However, I'll grant you that there's a lot more analysts than VPs. But I'm not too scared, most of the people at my firm who leave leave voluntarily and they go on to top 10 law schools, top 10 B-schools, other consulting gigs, private equity, or corporate management. These opportunities are not "assumptions", they are just a part of what it means to work in the managment consulting industry. It's why I chose to work here. Again, is it OK if I try to do my best in life, and ask others for opinions and guidance along the way?



BTW it's spelled "shoo in".

[cbragado]

Hi Johnny,

I think you're making the right choice. Worked at PwC Consulting for the past 4 1/2 yrs upon graduating college. The travel was tough, but the experience was worth it. I left the Firm to be near my son this year and took a job as a Controller. I negotiated that my new company pay for MBA school next year...

I love p-k-r as well though and can understand the problem you're facing. I will say that paying dues working in a consulting firm is highly favorable for your resume and can get you cool management jobs upon leaving, mba school or both...even if you lack experience (as in my case).

Poker will always be around, though. Prestigious jobs at big consulting firms are harder to come by...

Ches