Tricky Fish

Sometimes you will encounter a fish that plays badly, but bluffs and semi-bluffs in decent places (maybe a bit too much). It has been said that if an opponents bluffs too much, you should induce more bluffs from him. However, I like my opponents to play as straightforward as possible so my decisions are as easy as possible.

The question is:
Is it +EV to say things to a fish in order to reduce his bluffing frequency, so that his game is reduced to merely his bare poor play?

[Jimbo]

Yes, say this to him: "I am weak tight, your agressive bluffing makes me too scared to call you when I should. Would you please just hand me your money?

Remember the truth is your friend.

You dont seem to understand, or at least you are pretending that you don't.

Two situations:
1) Your opponent bluffs in an okay fashion, but his play is otherwise poor.
2) Your opponent doesnt bluff at all, and his play is poor.


Where do you think you make more money?

I think you'd have to define what you consider poor play that doesn't include bluffing too much. In a perfect world, opponents would put in the maximum number of bets with a hand worse than mine and the minimum number of bets with a hand better than mine.

[phish]

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I think you'd have to define what you consider poor play that doesn't include bluffing too much. In a perfect world, opponents would put in the maximum number of bets with a hand worse than mine and the minimum number of bets with a hand better than mine.

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But in the real world, anyone who is aggressive is tougher to play against. Remember, in the real world, you don't make strong hands all that often. You don't want to have to be put in a position of making tough decisions with marginal holdings.
I agree with Bright that you'd prefer an opponent who never bluffs. When he bets, you know he's strong and can fold. When he's weak, he'll just check and give you a free draw. Now if he's weak tight, you can bluff him. If he's weak loose, then he'll just pay you off well when you hit. But regardless, you want your opponent to be callers (or folders) but not betters.

If bluffing is apparently his only strong point then having him not bluff is good for you. On the other hand if he does make more bluffs than is good for him, which every bad player who bluffs does, then you are missing opportunities to pick up bets by discouraging it.

it sounds obvious but:
In other words if you are encouraging him to play better by not bluffing then you dont want to do that, but if you are encouraging him to play worse you want to do that.

Now if you want to factor in your own personal weaknesses against each type of opponent we have a whole different problem, and only you can answer that. Is his bluffing costing you money or making you money /images/graemlins/smile.gif

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On the other hand if he does make more bluffs than is good for him, which every bad player who bluffs does, then you are missing opportunities to pick up bets by discouraging it.

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This is what I was trying to say before. If your opponent is bluffing too much, then you can call with a lot of marginal holdings for value. Work on reading your opponent and stepping up to the challenge. You can make a lot of money from a habitual bluffer.

[Xhad]

Usually the game where fish bluff correctly is one where they're playing correctly other than that they play too many hands. In this kind of game I may just leave. Even though I have an edge it is sometimes so small that the game isn't worth my time, provided I can go play in a better one.

If you want to stay in the game, assuming they are bluffing correctly then it is +EV for you to encourage bluffs OR stop bluffs, whichever one is more likely to work. Assuming you adjust correctly after your tactic works of course.

[gabbahh]

If he blufs too much, shouldn't you reraise this fish whenever he raises????
Does he fold to your reraises when he is weak? If this is the case you should reraise him with marginal holdings, strong holdings and air. Also if he is semi bluffing (flush draw) reraise him immediately, or when the flush hits.
I would just reraise him if he is capable of folding.

PS Do not reraise him too much, or he will stop bluffing... But if you want to stop him bluffing: reraise him always.

[Xhad]

This thread is not about people who bluff too much. It is about people who have huge holes in their game but bluff correctly or close to it.

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This thread is not about people who bluff too much. It is about people who have huge holes in their game but bluff correctly or close to it.

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Xhadctly.

Your best move here is to get her off of this strategy, or just make ridiculous amounts of money from her mistakes.

[theghost]

I think when people say you should be "inducing bluffs" in this situation, they are talking about checking to a habitual bluffer when you feel you are ahead.

You do this because you think they will put in the bet for you. Depending on the situation, you might be able to c/r or just call (if there's enough chance they're actually ahead).

Had you bet, they might just fold it there and you lose a bet (when ahead).

Generally good for a checkraise on the turn, or check/call on the river. Turn checkraise they are more likely to call so they can peel one more; on the river if you are strong enough to checkraise you should be *very* sure that they will bet it.

Several considerations:
-How sure are you they will actually bet if checked to?
-Would they have called a bet from you? (If so, maybe you should just bet.)
-Would they bluff-raise a bet from you, and could you call that? (If not, check/call looks good.)
-Are you strong enough to c/r? Again, how sure are you that they will bet if checked to? Can you call or raise their 3-bet in this scenario?