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View Full Version : flopped flush faces flop agression

jsnipes28
10-23-2005, 05:23 PM
Ive only been at table for about 20-30 hands and haven't seen anything outrageous. (P.S.- I am transitioning moving from 50 to 100)
PP 100NL 6MAX
Hero is Button w/ Q /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/club.gif and $115
MP1 (Villain) $65
UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls, SB calls .5, BB raises to $2.5, UTG calls $1.5, MP1 calls $1.5, Hero calls $1.5, SB calls $1.5.
pot~ $10
Flop: 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif
SB bets $1, BB folds, UTG folds, MP1 raises to $5, Hero?
Hero ends up raising to $15, SB folds, BB raises all in $63.

What makes this play...higher/lower flush, maybe a set? Should i not raise his flop raise? It seems that any A or K of clubs is raising that 1 flop bet so i need to charge him to draw. But after he pushes i have to give him credit for a flush. Are smaller flushes making this same play often enough for it to be profitable those times when he has A or K flush?
Inevitable
10-23-2005, 05:27 PM
Insta-call. It's most the baby flushes/sets that push, because they want discourage draws and take the pot right there. The A or K flushes want to extract more carefully.
10-23-2005, 05:30 PM
You won't just be facing a flush here, you'll also be facing a Set, two pair, or even TPTK who wish to protect their hand since its unlikely anyone hit the 3% chance to flop a flush.

I had a hand earlier, battle of the blinds. I was SB and opponent was BB and I held 45 of diamonds.

Flop came: AK10 Diamonds

I potted, he potted, I pushed, he called with 93 of diamonds and took it.

And tilt began.

It's pretty hard to fold that, and perhaps not even profitable to fold it. Maybe just call and get stacked if you were unlucky.
xorbie
10-23-2005, 05:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
since its unlikely anyone hit the 3% chance to flop a flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is retarded.
Finite_Risk
10-23-2005, 05:35 PM
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=ssplnlpoker&Number=3744550 &page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=all
jsnipes28
10-23-2005, 05:35 PM
Thanks. He actually turned over K /images/graemlins/club.gif 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif for a higher flush but i feel like there are enough smaller flushes that make the same play that it is still profitable to call.

I just feel like i am very delusional with flushes sometimes in that i always feel that a flush is the nuts on a non-paired board regardless of whether its 78s or AKs. I think this is a leak in my game and i am trying to assess more clearly these flush-over flush ocurrences.
I t
j0wlev
10-23-2005, 05:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Ive only been at table for about 20-30 hands and haven't seen anything outrageous. (P.S.- I am transitioning moving from 50 to 100)
PP 100NL 6MAX
Hero is Button w/ Q /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/club.gif and $115
MP1 (Villain) $65
UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls, SB calls .5, BB raises to $2.5, UTG calls $1.5, MP1 calls $1.5, Hero calls $1.5, SB calls $1.5.
pot~ $10
Flop: 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif
SB bets $1, BB folds, UTG folds, MP1 raises to $5, Hero?
Hero ends up raising to $15, SB folds, BB raises all in $63.

What makes this play...higher/lower flush, maybe a set? Should i not raise his flop raise? It seems that any A or K of clubs is raising that 1 flop bet so i need to charge him to draw. But after he pushes i have to give him credit for a flush. Are smaller flushes making this same play often enough for it to be profitable those times when he has A or K flush?

[/ QUOTE ]


There's no way you can fold, the re-draw alone has equity against a higher flush.
scrapperdog
10-23-2005, 05:52 PM
I dont see why people on this board seem to think that 2 pair makes moves like this on a flop with all clubs. If you make this move with 2 pair you are an idiot IMO. Stop underestimating your opponents, they do this with a set, flush or draw to nut flush.
10-23-2005, 06:16 PM
Most players at 100 NL are idiots.
troymclur
10-23-2005, 06:18 PM
one card to a straight flush gives you equity against a made hand?
scrapperdog
10-23-2005, 06:22 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Most players at 100 NL are idiots.

[/ QUOTE ]

You might be right, but I dont make that assumption about an individual player until they show they are an idiot.
10-23-2005, 06:24 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
since its unlikely anyone hit the 3% chance to flop a flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is retarded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for coming out xorbie. Have anything more useful to say then that [censored]?
mason55
10-23-2005, 06:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
since its unlikely anyone hit the 3% chance to flop a flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is retarded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for coming out xorbie. Have anything more useful to say then that [censored]?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you trying to argue that the statement wasn't retarded or are your feelings just hurt?
10-23-2005, 06:59 PM
I suppose you can say my feelings are hurt.

For one, I've never understood people's infatuation with being arrogant assholes. And frankly, it bothers me.

Secondly, it is a low % that a person flops a flush and sets, two pair, and tptk's will bet hard on a suited flop to protect vs the draw.

Maybe we should all be big men and get into a ball kicking contest with each other and see who can kick the hardest and take the most.
elus2
10-23-2005, 07:00 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I suppose you can say my feelings are hurt.

For one, I've never understood people's infatuation with being arrogant assholes. And frankly, it bothers me.

Secondly, it is a low % that a person flops a flush and sets, two pair, and tptk's will bet hard on a suited flop to protect vs the draw.

Maybe we should all be big men and get into a ball kicking contest with each other and see who can kick the hardest and take the most.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's immaterial how often a flush is flopped. focus instead on the number of possible combinations of flushes, sets, other hands in his range.
elus2
10-23-2005, 07:02 PM
[ QUOTE ]
one card to a straight flush gives you equity against a made hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qc Tc 44 4.44 946 95.56 0 0.00 0.044
Ac 3c 946 95.56 44 4.44 0 0.00 0.956

4.44% baby.
10-23-2005, 07:22 PM
Of course. In all fairness I didn't say it wouldn't happen. I just meant that since it's an unlikelyhood to flop a flush... players holding strong non-flush hands will bet it hard to protect vs the draw.

And duh, people flop flushes all the time, and yes you will go up against them.