odd ?

[euri10]

how do you find this line ? I dont know if I should bet the river here...

Euri10's TD converter (http://membres.lycos.fr/euri10/td%20converter.html)

Hand number: null
Level: $1/$2
Players:
SB($96) seat 1
Hero($98) seat 4

Button at seat 1

SB posts. Hero posts.

Hand: 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif6/images/graemlins/heart.gifK/images/graemlins/diamond.gif9/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Round 1(0.75BB)

SB raises. Hero calls. Hero takes 2. SB stands pat.

Hand: 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif6/images/graemlins/heart.gif4/images/graemlins/heart.gifT/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Round 2(2.25BB)

Hero checks. SB bets. Hero raises. SB calls. Hero stands pat. SB stands pat.

Hand: 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif6/images/graemlins/heart.gif4/images/graemlins/heart.gifT/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Round 3(4.25BB)

Hero bets. SB calls. Hero stands pat. SB takes 1.

Hand: 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif6/images/graemlins/heart.gif4/images/graemlins/heart.gifT/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Round 4(6.25BB)

Hero bets. SB folds.

[fnord_too]

He probably broke a 9 there.

[timprov]

I typically fold this, even at 24h where I have position.

[randomstumbl]

I'm normally going to fold this hand, but it seems like you played this hand pretty well.

Also, this hand is obviously better if your opponent is willing to break a lot of hands. If your opponent isn't going to break a lot, it's probably going to lose you a lot of money, especially out of position.

This seems like a really reasonable way to occasionally get aggressive against opponents who don't understand how to handle it.

[somapopper]

I think the bet on the river is silly, because the only hand that's probably considering calling you is a smooth jack, and that's questionable. He's only really considering calling you if he has reason to believe that you're snowing.

So, if you recently got caught snowing, betting might be OK, but it still probably isn't worth the amount of time you get raised, and the amount of the time you're getting a bet in for him when he has a bad 87, a 9, or a 10 that he would have been happy to check behind.

As for the rest of this hand, I think we need to know a little bit more about your opponent. When you make that rough 10, how often do you think you're ahead, and how often are you still behind? What is SB's bare minimum to start pat with? A 9864w would be a much better hand to try this line with I think. Because here, not only do you have a 10, you have a really awfull 10. Plus, HU, if you see a 9, much of the time it will be a 98.

At least this hand is beautifully converted. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[timprov]

River bet is absolutely necessary if you're going to continue playing. You can't show this hand down if it's at all possible not to.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
River bet is absolutely necessary if you're going to continue playing. You can't show this hand down if it's at all possible not to.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. And at 6 and change BB a one big bet investment is worth it in this scenario.

PS: Fold the hand in the long run before the expensive streets start, you got lucky this time.

[somapopper]

huh, OK. I assume your not saying that for meta game reasons, and we certainly can't be betting this for value, so is it just to fold better 10s, or do you think most 9s will fold?

[timprov]

[ QUOTE ]
I assume your not saying that for meta game reasons

[/ QUOTE ]

It's entirely for metagame reasons.

[randomstumbl]

[ QUOTE ]
huh, OK. I assume your not saying that for meta game reasons, and we certainly can't be betting this for value, so is it just to fold better 10s, or do you think most 9s will fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

The bet is mostly for metagame reasons, but it isn't very costly.

If he hits a jack or worse, we'd like him to call, but can probably just assume a "normal" player will fold. He'll most likely fold a T or a very rough 9. With a smooth 9 or rough 8 he'll call. And, he'll probably raise most smooth 8's or better.

If we check, he'll bluff some and he'll bet his smooth 9's or better.

So, we're really only losing money by betting when he has a rough 9, manages to call with a better ten or folds when he would have bluffed.

[euri10]

this hand actually was just after 4 hands in a row where I showed and won with rough 9 and T while he draws 1 on last card.
so I suspected him to loosen up a bit after that and wanted to test him. my T is bad but if he doesn't break I know I'm done. If he does I'm ahead most of the time.
I wondered whether or not the river bet was necessary, while I agree with your arguments that it's not a hand that you wanna show for meta game reasons (like that new name for me /images/graemlins/smile.gif), in the meantime I wonder if it's not a good hand to show just because it will be for him a confirmation that I'm drawing rough everytime. In that case I'll be payed very well if I'm making a 86 85 or 7. It will be for him an inducement to draw rougher, so if at that time I draw smoother and hit, I'll win extra bets no ?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

i agree that betting this river is best. you don't want your foe knowing how you play this game HU.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

with no context for this hand and in a vacuum, out of position i don't really like this at all, especially when he shows no indication he's willing to break his hand.

a lot of it depends on the dyanamics between you two at this point and your read.