Dealers most hated and stiff report

[kchammer]

I was shocked at the number of top pro stiffs when I moved to las vegas. To be a stiff is one thing but to be a huge dick is another. The tv protrays these top pros as great human biengs but the fact is most top pros are asshoes. I wish the public could see what I see!. #1 ahole is a tie
J Chan and Sammy are the worst humans to play the game

[Jorge10]

You think most athletes are good people? Most are somewhere along the lines of Kenny Rogers. Its just the way of the world, very few people in this world can remain grounded when they get fame and fortune. Im sure not all famous poker players are bad, you just picked the Kenny Rogers's of poker.

[Jorge10]

Also people can have bad days you know. Some days people just dont feel like dealing with crap it happens maybe you caught them on a bad day.

when you say 'stiff' do you mean they tip too lightly or not at all?

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
when you say 'stiff' do you mean they tip too lightly or not at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

Generally the higher the limit someone plays the less they tip (not a lower per centage, less on absolute terms). In most high limit games if there isnt' something built in for the dealer the dealer gets nothing.

[kchammer]

stiff means nothing
I mean nadda. Its unreal the higer the limit the less you get. Those high limit players want a perfect deal in all aspects ,treat you like a peion ,blame you for the draw of the cards and then tip nothing. In a $4 - 8 game I make like 20 bucks in a down (30 Mins) In the big game $4000/8000 if I am lucky I might get a Fiver from one player if he crushed it. The prop bets they make can be as high as 50 k per hand on top of a pot that is 40 to 50 k, 1 dollars seems reasoable to me I chose this profession I just wanted a place to let everone know how it realy is. You would think that if they blame us for the bad cards they woul be nicer to get better cards. These guys are real rocket scientist

[riverboatking]

when you deal, do you toss each player you cost money to a buck?

if you don't feel responsible for costing some players money why do you feel entitled to be compensated by the players whom win money?

[Claytus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
when you say 'stiff' do you mean they tip too lightly or not at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

Generally the higher the limit someone plays the less they tip (not a lower per centage, less on absolute terms). In most high limit games if there isnt' something built in for the dealer the dealer gets nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was playing some drunken 4/8 at Foxwoods the othetr night, when one of the dealers said they had spread 75/150 stud the other night and the total tips taken out of the box for his shift was $25

[kchammer]

tips = To insure promt service. I am not being tipped because of mistakes or giving winning cards. I am being tipped for doing a good job. If I do good job I sould be tipped. I make mim wage and rely on tips to live. If it was up the casino to provide me with all of my income I am sure they could increase the rake a couple of bucks per hand, but this would, for sure decrease the quailty of dealers as who would care, they get payed, tip or no tip. It was a joke as to say to get good cards they should be nicer, like I can control the deck.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
when you deal, do you toss each player you cost money to a buck?

if you don't feel responsible for costing some players money why do you feel entitled to be compensated by the players whom win money?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are kidding here right?

~ Rick

[2+2 wannabe]

[ QUOTE ]
tips = To insure promt service.

[/ QUOTE ]

not to be a nit - but that's not what it means at all

it would be "to ensure prompt service" - but the word tip comes from a different background regardless

[2+2 wannabe]

[ QUOTE ]
when you deal, do you toss each player you cost money to a buck?

if you don't feel responsible for costing some players money why do you feel entitled to be compensated by the players whom win money?

[/ QUOTE ]

this is the stupidest thing I've ever read

[Josh W]

I'm friends with almost all of the dealers at the Hustler, where the 'big' game was for years until about 18 months ago. Oh, maybe they'd have a 1k-2k game in Vegas, but the 4k-8k game was with Larry Flynt on a weekly basis.

I happen to know that Johnny Chan was one of the larger tippers in the game when it was at the Hustler. Now, he was also part of the Pai Gow corporation (I've heard....this is a little gossipy...), and many of the dealers at the Hustler like to gamble when they get off duty. So it's possible he was just, um, paying the hand that feeds him, to some extent.

However, like I said, I know that Johnny Chan was a healthy tipper (for whatever reason). I'm not blaming you, but you may want to do some introspection.

I'm not saying this to get under your skin, just to help your bottom line.

Josh

[riverboatking]

i don't tip period.
i don't tip waiters, valet, dealers, or anybody...those dollars really add up.

[riverboatking]

actually rick, i tip the dealers very well, which is why all the dealers at the bike know me by name, however i was giving the OP a hard time because i think anyone who comes on this fourm to bitch about not getting tipped enough is a loser of epic perportions and should be publicly ridiculed...seriously how pathetic can you get.

and if he has to resort to whining publicly about not getting tipped enough there may be a direct correlation to why he's not getting tipped...he's probably a douchebag.

[tonypaladino]

[ QUOTE ]
I am being tipped for doing a good job. If I do good job I sould be tipped.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, fair enough. I do tip for good service. If you were my dealer, and didn't [censored] anything up, I'd tip you.

[ QUOTE ]


I make mim wage and rely on tips to live.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, first you say that dealers should be tipped for good service, I, and probably 99% of 2+2ers agree with that. But, no one likes a whiny ass dealer/waiter/cab driver etc, who bitches about how little their paid and how much they need tips.

YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO TIPS. Tips are given at the DISCRESION of the customer, if they are happy with their service. Once again, TIPS ARE NOT AN ENTITLEMENT.

[cpitt398]

I think his point is that a lot of people look up to these people and assume they are giving and nice people when they are not. I hear it everyday at the Bellagio. Someone will say I bet those guys tip hundreds maybe 1000's. Well thats not the case and I let people know that b/c I know the truth. I am not a dealer but a player but I am friendly with a few of them.

Trust me it is not this one in particular, they all bitch on how they are treated.

Go to www.pokerworks.com (http://www.pokerworks.com) and click on table tango for a blog of one of the dealers and just read the crap she puts up with.

[cpitt398]

BTW, they are not entitled to tips but are entitled to be treated like human beings. One of my friends say she doesn't even care if they dont tip, she just wishes they wouldnt be so hateful.

[2+2 wannabe]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't tip period.
i don't tip waiters, valet, dealers, or anybody...those dollars really add up.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
actually rick, i tip the dealers very well

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
actually rick, i tip the dealers very well, which is why all the dealers at the bike know me by name, however i was giving the OP a hard time because i think anyone who comes on this fourm to bitch about not getting tipped enough is a loser of epic perportions and should be publicly ridiculed...seriously how pathetic can you get.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. If you are in a job where you rely on tips you need to accept that it averages out, some people overtip and some don't tip so you need to get used to it.

[ QUOTE ]
and if he has to resort to whining publicly about not getting tipped enough there may be a direct correlation to why he's not getting tipped...he's probably a douchebag.

[/ QUOTE ]

My guess is the people he mentioned just don't tip anybody who deals. As an aside, there are a bunch of people I think are douchebags but I usually need more information to come to that conclusion, then I pretty much keep that particular thought to myself or share with my closest friends.

~ Rick

PS Don't work at the Bike anymore.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
, I know that Johnny Chan was a healthy tipper (for whatever reason). I'm not blaming you, but you may want to do some introspection.
Josh

[/ QUOTE ]

Cool you straightened this out Josh.

~ Rick

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, they are not entitled to tips but are entitled to be treated like human beings. One of my friends say she doesn't even care if they dont tip, she just wishes they wouldnt be so hateful.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very true. Some of them (who won't be named here) not only don't tip, they play a game where they see if they can cut the dealer's hand when they muck their cards.

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't tip period.
i don't tip waiters, valet, dealers, or anybody...those dollars really add up.

[/ QUOTE ]

you dont tip waiters?

[VeryTnA]

[ QUOTE ]
when you deal, do you toss each player you cost money to a buck?

if you don't feel responsible for costing some players money why do you feel entitled to be compensated by the players whom win money?


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't tip period.
i don't tip waiters, valet, dealers, or anybody...those dollars really add up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you (and all your not tipping friends)lose your bankroll and have to take a service job. You are a low life dirt bag.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
I hope you (and all your not tipping friends)lose your bankroll and have to take a service job. You are a low life dirt bag.

[/ QUOTE ]

Check riverboatking's reply to me elsewhere in this thread. It seems he was kidding about not tipping.

~ Rick

[riverboatking]

hey KKF, it was a joke.
now we're even.
/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<-------

do you accept .50 tips?

I was at the bellagio playing 4/8 holdem and a dealer threw back my .50 tip. I refused to tip any dealers after that insult.

I refuse to tip more than .50...would you accept this as resonable at the lower limits?

do you accept .50 tips?

I was at the bellagio playing 4/8 holdem and a dealer threw back my .50 tip. I refused to tip any dealers after that insult.

I refuse to tip more than .50...would you accept this as resonable at the lower limits?

I don't understand why the good players can't act like normal, nice people. What gives a high limit player the right to treat a dealer like crap? I, too, have heard of dealer's getting their hands cut from players throwing cards at them.

I highly doubt such behavior would be tolerated at a 2/4 game, or 1-2 No Limit. Obviously, the reason the casino tolerates it is because they want the high limit and well known players to play at their rooms.

Quite frankly, I think these players have the attitude that because they think they are big deals (really, they're not), that they have the right to treat people like total garbage. I don't accept the "oh, well someone had a bad day" logic. In a normal job, if you are having a bad day and throw something at your boss, and hurt them, you will probably get severely reprimanded or fired. I know it would not happen, but I think poker managers should throw out top pros who can't act like decent human beings.

Many of these professionals should be thankful for the types of lives that you can lead. Without poker, a lot of these poker professionals would probably be in low wage jobs. You'd see how fast they'd stop acting like morons if they were working a normal job, with normal hours, and a normal expectation of human behavior.

[kchammer]

well said!!!

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
I know it would not happen, but I think poker managers should throw out top pros who can't act like decent human beings.

[/ QUOTE ]

I sued to have a count of how many WSOP breclets I had told to hit the road. I quit counting after a while. None of these guys were as well known as the big game players, but they thought they were pretty important in a small room.

i agree with MASONMOM.... but with one exception, they should recieve 25 cents at the 4-8 games. its only fair.

any of you guys who tip in the lower limits are suckers, since you pay the highest rake percentage per pot.

[jokerthief]

[ QUOTE ]
stiff means nothing
I mean nadda. Its unreal the higer the limit the less you get. Those high limit players want a perfect deal in all aspects ,treat you like a peion ,blame you for the draw of the cards and then tip nothing. In a $4 - 8 game I make like 20 bucks in a down (30 Mins) In the big game $4000/8000 if I am lucky I might get a Fiver from one player if he crushed it. The prop bets they make can be as high as 50 k per hand on top of a pot that is 40 to 50 k, 1 dollars seems reasoable to me I chose this profession I just wanted a place to let everone know how it realy is. You would think that if they blame us for the bad cards they woul be nicer to get better cards. These guys are real rocket scientist

[/ QUOTE ]

This blowss my mind. In fact I don't believe it.

[jokerthief]

This is a damn good gimmick account.

[Photoc]

[ QUOTE ]
#1 ahole is a tie
J Chan and Sammy are the worst humans to play the game

[/ QUOTE ]

YOU ARE CORRECT!!! [censored] them both! I know from experience. They could both die and most dealers would have a party.

[Photoc]

He's correct bro. 100% truth in his post. You may not believe it, but that's the way it is.

[Voltron87]

i am by no means a stingy tipper, i tip well, but there are a bunch of things that piss me off about some dealers:

1. what difference does it make if you dealt me a 1000$ pot or a 100$ one? if a pot was complicated and involved a sidepot, etc, and was handled well i will tip extra for that but other wise why should a dealer be tipped in proportion to the size of the pot?

2. there are way too many dealers who feel too goddamned entitled. i know so many dealers who do a mediocre job and still complain about average tips. STFU. there are a lot of people who get bent out of shape by this who shouldnt.

[accountant71]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't tip period.
i don't tip waiters, valet, dealers, or anybody...those dollars really add up.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I dealt, people who didnt tip got raked $10 each and every hand. It wasnt good for me but the casino loved it.

[riverboatking]

i'll give you a tip:

quit being such a whiny bitch.

[juanez]

[ QUOTE ]
I was at the bellagio playing 4/8 holdem and a dealer threw back my .50 tip. I refused to tip any dealers after that insult.

[/ QUOTE ]

So one waiter or bartender insults your pathetic ego and you won't tip any other waiters or bartenders either? Douche....

[MyMindIsGoing]

[ QUOTE ]
I am being tipped for doing a good job. If I do good job I sould be tipped.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tipping is one of the worst scams in modern history. If you do not make enough on your job, get an education and get a higher paid job or learn to live with low income. I hope Penn & Teller bring this up sometime, coz it is bulls*t!

[PayTheSnucka]

[ QUOTE ]
i am by no means a stingy tipper, i tip well, but there are a bunch of things that piss me off about some dealers:

1. what difference does it make if you dealt me a 1000$ pot or a 100$ one? if a pot was complicated and involved a sidepot, etc, and was handled well i will tip extra for that but other wise why should a dealer be tipped in proportion to the size of the pot?



[/ QUOTE ]

It seems intuitive that when you are dealing with higher sums of people's money, you would want to give the dealer a bigger incentive to do his job correctly. Otherwise, I agree.

[cpitt398]

1. Im pretty sure that they dont want more money perportional to the pot. They just want to be treated fairly ad thrown a buck every once and awhile.

why don't you answer my question?

How much do dealers want to make? I'd say $10 - $15 and hour is more than enough. I can't accept that they should make $50 + per hour.

If you don't like the pay get another job...the problem is most of these monkeys can't earn more in any other job. Take what you get and stop f'ing crying. If you want more of the players money...play against them and see how much you can get moron,

no they want a buck every time...they expect top make $50+ an hour. That unreasonable for a job that a monkey can do.
They don't even shuffle any more. I suggest tipping $.50 every other hand..,if you don't like it get another job!

[Easy E]

You should be more forthwright from the start about your motivations for making judgements, in the future.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
no they want a buck every time...they expect top make $50+ an hour. That unreasonable for a job that a monkey can do.
They don't even shuffle any more. I suggest tipping $.50 every other hand..,if you don't like it get another job!

[/ QUOTE ]

You are way off on your numbers. Most dealers can only get about 11-12 half hour downs per eight hour shift (or fewer 40 minute downs). There are plenty of walks (blind steals) where few expect to be tipped. Most dealers realize they get stiffed by some players. Most rooms require that a dealer kick back about two or three dollars per down for runners, floor, etc.

Typical dealer might make $130 to $180 per day. A few will do worse or better. Only one in a thousand makes the kind of money (over eight hours) you are talking about.

~ Rick

[cwsiggy]

I was talking to a Borgata dealer and he was bitching about how much Al Ardebili tipped this year (30k) vs. Negreanu's tip of around 60k last year. He said that difference in tip made the hourly $50 this year vs $100 per hour last year. (obviously just for the tourney)

Cry me a river.

[accountant71]

[ QUOTE ]
no they want a buck every time...they expect top make $50+ an hour. That unreasonable for a job that a monkey can do.
They don't even shuffle any more. I suggest tipping $.50 every other hand..,if you don't like it get another job!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why I will rake $10 for each pot you win. Its not good for me but the casino loves it. If you dont like it, go to another casino.

[ QUOTE ]
why don't you answer my question?

How much do dealers want to make? I'd say $10 - $15 and hour is more than enough. I can't accept that they should make $50 + per hour.

If you don't like the pay get another job...the problem is most of these monkeys can't earn more in any other job. Take what you get and stop f'ing crying. If you want more of the players money...play against them and see how much you can get moron,

[/ QUOTE ]

this lady(MASONMOM) should run the top poker rooms. the reasons the heigher limit guys don't tip as much is because they are smarter (afer all there should be a corelation between high limits and IQ)getting over $50 an hour to move some cards is insane. $10-15 is fair.

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
I was talking to a Borgata dealer and he was bitching about how much Al Ardebili tipped this year (30k) vs. Negreanu's tip of around 60k last year. He said that difference in tip made the hourly $50 this year vs $100 per hour last year. (obviously just for the tourney)

Cry me a river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally at major touranments teh final event is a large pay day for the dealers. The touranment management likes this as it keeps the dealers committed for the entire tournament and it off sets dealing the large side games wehre they receive no tip.

Even if I use your numbers: $130 - $180 per day for 6 hour of actual work (12 half hour downs per shift) sounds pretty generous to me. Include their hourly wage, free food, benefits & favourable tax treatment...sounds like a very good deal to me. Thats why people want these jobs. Compare this to those poor souls that have to work 8 hours with only two 15 minute breaks and a half hour lunch for much less per hour. Bottom line, why complain if you get stiffed by some playes and still make an average of $155 dollars per shift. Dealers still make enough and thats exactly why there is so much demand for these jobs

you must work at the bellagio...95% of the dealer are mofo's and deserve nothing...you're a jackass and should be treated accordingly.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
1. Im pretty sure that they dont want more money perportional to the pot. They just want to be treated fairly ad thrown a buck every once and awhile.

[/ QUOTE ]

you have not met the same dealers i have. as i said, i tip more than fine, i am very generous to regular dealers who do a good job and pay attention, there are just way too many stuck up bad dealers out there.

[youtalkfunny]

[ QUOTE ]
Even if I use your numbers: $130 - $180 per day for 6 hour of actual work (12 half hour downs per shift) sounds pretty generous to me. Include their hourly wage, free food, benefits & favourable tax treatment...sounds like a very good deal to me. Thats why people want these jobs. Compare this to those poor souls that have to work 8 hours with only two 15 minute breaks and a half hour lunch for much less per hour. Bottom line, why complain if you get stiffed by some playes and still make an average of $155 dollars per shift. Dealers still make enough and thats exactly why there is so much demand for these jobs

[/ QUOTE ]

I dealt poker for five years.

I can't disagree with anything written in this post.

Though I was lucky enough to never have to deal games that big. I'm sure if I did, I'd vent about it.

The biggest problem I have with these dealers is that it's always about them and how they suffer making less than a dollar per deal on average. I have to remind everyone that its not about the dealer, instead its about the customer (PLAYER). Without the players there is no game and all of these jackasses would be working at McDonalds. Remember that point and GET BACK TO WORK you idiots. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[bogey]

[ QUOTE ]
I was talking to a Borgata dealer and he was bitching about how much Al Ardebili tipped this year (30k) vs. Negreanu's tip of around 60k last year. He said that difference in tip made the hourly $50 this year vs $100 per hour last year. (obviously just for the tourney)

Cry me a river.

[/ QUOTE ]

This pisses me off so much its unbelievable. I wish there was some way Al could go and ask for the money back.

fwiw, after the wsop this year, i felt kind of railroaded into leaving a tip. They had this dealer and staff guy come in and tell me what was customary. (The dealer said 5 to 10 on a win of my size, which I thought he meant 5k-10k, but looking back I wouldn't be suprised if he meant 5-10%)And when I asked what about the casino's percentage they told me less than 2% goes to the dealers. I asked to leave my check there and leave the tip when I came back after I talked to some other players, but they said if I didnt leave the tip that day the dealers wouldn't get it. I finally decided to leave 5k, which I thought was reasonable. When I gave it to them they hardly even seemed appreciative, kind of acting like I stiffed them. I should have taken it back.

Mr. Pink in Reservoir Dogs had a very good speech about tipping. do you tip fast food workers? do you tip your doctor when going for a check up? why not? but society says, "tip them, but don't tip them"
it shouldn't matter if a pot is 100 or 1000, why would a dealer expect that much more? it's the player's money. imagine a cashier who sold a winning lottery ticket and demanded a cut. greed...
there are so many sides to this argument..
basically, with me what it boils down to is: if a dealer is fast and does the job well, and the pot is worthwhile, i will throw him a buck or .50 when playing 3/6. if the dealer does a bad job or takes a longer time dealing hands, then he is not rewarded. tips are not required, they are optional.
just like others have said, if the dealers complain about not making enough money, they can get another job.

[ QUOTE ]
The biggest problem I have with these dealers is that it's always about them and how they suffer making less than a dollar per deal on average. I have to remind everyone that its not about the dealer, instead its about the customer (PLAYER).

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad someone said this. Businesses are about customer satisfaction. People in customer service positions have to deal with crap from customers, that's part of the job and you should accept it when you apply for the position.

[phish]

Sounds like so much anger on this thread. My opinion is that in tournaments, they should take maybe one or two percentage of the prize pool and give it to the dealers and make it explicit that no additional tipping is expected. I hate the implicit or explicit pressure to tip. I once felt I was pressured into tipping what I thought was too much and resented it.

Regarding ring games, I believe it is part of the social contract that dealers get tipped. If a dealer's particularly bad, then he should be stiffed, but otherwise it should be considered as part of the cost of playing, like the rake.

But at the very least, all dealers should be treated with respect and decency, just like all players should be. And if you read the OP's complaints, I think he signaled out those two not only because they stiff him, but primarily because they're massive A-holes to the dealers. They have what I would characterize as very un-American (not intending to be racist, but I believe part of it is cultural) attitudes about superiority/inferiority and the acceptable abuse/treatment of 'inferiors'.

[NobodysFreak]

I'm waiting for Mr.Pink to chime in at any moment. I'll be disappointed if it doesn't happen.

As for the topic at hand, in my limited experience with dealers, it seems like they love dealing at the low limit games because the tips are greater. It makes sense to me since the games seem to be friendlier and the players more intoxicated.

[Ulysses]

5k on a win of how much?

[ QUOTE ]
You think most athletes are good people? Most are somewhere along the lines of Kenny Rogers. Its just the way of the world, very few people in this world can remain grounded when they get fame and fortune. Im sure not all famous poker players are bad, you just picked the Kenny Rogers's of poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, pick on a guy who's played for over 15 seasons and who had one bad incident. Jesus Ch**** you are stupid. Sitting here telling this guy WHO HAS APPARENTLY MET JC and FARHA that HE IS WRONG, and yet you liken those players to Kenny Rogers, who you've never met.

Don't be a grade-A d**che.

[ QUOTE ]
Also people can have bad days you know. Some days people just dont feel like dealing with crap it happens maybe you caught them on a bad day.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh! Yet KR has "a bad day" and now you dub him public enemy number 1??

F*** you. "The Kenny Rogers of Poker". Jesus.

[ QUOTE ]

This is very true. Some of them (who won't be named here) not only don't tip, they play a game where they see if they can cut the dealer's hand when they muck their cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

OMG, how horrific. How degrading. Does the winner get to urinate on the dealer, too?

[callydrias]

Why isn't this (now thoroughly hijacked) thread locked? The universe has enough tipping threads.

[bogey]

[ QUOTE ]
5k on a win of how much?

[/ QUOTE ]

1.15 m, i realize it isn't a big tip relative to the win, but with how much was taken out of the prize pool already, i felt this was more than adequate, and if its not going to be appreciated or im gonna be made to feel like an ass for *only* tipping 5k id rather keep it

[Malachii]

[ QUOTE ]
J Chan and Sammy are the worst humans to play the game

[/ QUOTE ]
This doesn't surprise me very much. I remember from the 2002 WSOP Farha snarled at a dealer after losing a pot where he was out kicked, and I assume he was on his best behavior for camera. It mystifies me why professional gamblers who thoroughly understand the odds get upset at dealers when they are catching bad cards. What sort of behavior do you specifically see from them?

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
5k on a win of how much?

[/ QUOTE ]

1.15 m, i realize it isn't a big tip relative to the win, but with how much was taken out of the prize pool already, i felt this was more than adequate, and if its not going to be appreciated or im gonna be made to feel like an ass for *only* tipping 5k id rather keep it

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, main event. Congrats. I agree w/ your sentiments completely. If I recall correctly, there was a tip taken out in addition to the tourney fee. Anything you give on top of that is generous on your part and should be appreciated as such. Sure, 5k is not much compared to 1.15m, but in absolute terms, 5k is a lot of money. Some CEO worth $100M shows up to play some blackjack and tips them $5k, they'll definitely appreciate it a lot. If the tip taken out was 2% (I thought it was something like that), I dunno, maybe I would have left $10k in your spot, but whatever. I'm sure leaving 10k on 1.15M would have been looked at as a cheapskate too by a lot of these dealers.

[kchammer]

hey masonmom what is the difference between a Canadian and a canoe???

[pokernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
Generally the higher the limit someone plays the less they tip (not a lower per centage, less on absolute terms). In most high limit games if there isnt' something built in for the dealer the dealer gets nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't surprise me for two reasons. First, as you increase the limit, you're more likely to have people who play poker for a living (or who derive a substantial portion of their income from poker playing). It would seem that such players are not going to be inclined to give away money while at work, so to speak (in much the same way that I don't tip the IT support guy at my company when I have a problem with my computer and he comes to fix it...) I treat him respectfully, and hope that he helps out when I need it.

Second, people usually hand the dealer one of the chips in the pot as a tip. That's not so unreasonable in a $4-$8 game where $1 chips are often in play. In the bigger games, they are playing with larger chips, and you are probably not going to get a $1,000 chip as a tip for a single hand.

I honestly don't think anyone has the right to treat another human being like crap. But, I also don't believe that dealers should feel _entitled_ to tips. Players can give them at their own discretion. If a player is generous enough to give a tip, that should be appreciated, but not expected. Players are already paying a lot in rake, etc. The cardroom/casino makes a substantial amount from these players. If they are not passing enough of their (huge) profits on to dealers, then the dealers should either take this up with the casino/cardroom or consider another better-paying profession.

[pokernicus]

[ QUOTE ]

This is why I will rake $10 for each pot you win. Its not good for me but the casino loves it. If you dont like it, go to another casino.

[/ QUOTE ]

So let me get this straight:

1) you feel screwed because you don't make enough money.
2) the players give a substantial amount of money in the form of rake to the casino.
3) The casino, in turn, keeps most of the money as profit and pays what you consider to be a "relatively" small amount -- effectively being the ones who screw you.

So, you decide to give the entity that screws you (i.e., the casino) more money, and take that money from the person who provides the casino with it's income (i.e., the player)?

That's got to be up there on the nastiness scale. And you complain that some of the players are mean?

Well, whatever helps you sleep well at night...

[thetman]

This thread shows what miserable people a lot of poker players truly are...how despicable. And they wonder why they don't get many good dealers. It's because they don't deserve them. AND NO I'M NOT A DEALER...just a decent human being.

[MonkeeMan]

[ QUOTE ]
no they want a buck every time...they expect top make $50+ an hour. That unreasonable for a job that a monkey can do.
They don't even shuffle any more. I suggest tipping $.50 every other hand..,if you don't like it get another job!

[/ QUOTE ]

Cough up a buck you cheap bastard.

[StevieG]

[ QUOTE ]

So, you decide to give the entity that screws you (i.e., the casino) more money, and take that money from the person who provides the casino with it's income (i.e., the player)?

That's got to be up there on the nastiness scale.


[/ QUOTE ]

And possibly the stupidity scale, too. The decision is to give the casino money from the people that provide the tips. Yes, overraking that one pot screws the person that did not tip, but once that money is off the table it's off, and not any of the other players can win it and return it as a tip, either.

<font color="white">Why am I even posting to a tipping thread? Tipping threads suck.</font>

[accountant71]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

This is why I will rake $10 for each pot you win. Its not good for me but the casino loves it. If you dont like it, go to another casino.

[/ QUOTE ]

So let me get this straight:

1) you feel screwed because you don't make enough money.
2) the players give a substantial amount of money in the form of rake to the casino.
3) The casino, in turn, keeps most of the money as profit and pays what you consider to be a "relatively" small amount -- effectively being the ones who screw you.

So, you decide to give the entity that screws you (i.e., the casino) more money, and take that money from the person who provides the casino with it's income (i.e., the player)?

That's got to be up there on the nastiness scale. And you complain that some of the players are mean?

Well, whatever helps you sleep well at night...

[/ QUOTE ]

I do lose a little sleep over it. I sleep 12 hours a day and if I didnt double rake the stiffs, I would sleep 14 hours.

[kchammer]

I saw farha spit in a dealers face. I saw it. I would of killed him if he did it to me. Harmon is a control freak, Todd Brunson well he,s very unlikeable. I tell you all the players should model Barry Greinstien He has tipped me only one time but he is very nice person.. Read His book ace on the river on who should be tipped and why. I think he has it right. Oh by the way In tournamnets there is 3% from prize pool for the dealers, LOL after being robbed by the floor men and the toke committee there is very little left.The remainder is devided by the number of downs total then given to the dealers. Tips at the end of a tounament help to increase the downs to a reasonable number. Like if downs were $10 why would any dealer deal a tourney. In a live game a poor dealer can put out 15 hands of 10 would usualy tip a dollar . Tournament dealers usualy have to pay to travel pay for hotel be away from home for 3 to 4 weeks at a time. Alot of players think they can deal but let me ask you, can you handle a big game like a 300/600 500/1000 or the big game 2000/4000 one mistake could cost a player a ton of real money. Good dealers arent everywhere. I know it is brain surgery but it does have some skill and a lot of thought to be a good dealer. Did i mention all the games you have to know and the procedures of the games such as duce to 7, ace to 5, high lo regular, stud 8 or better, stud, chineese poker , omaha hi , omaha 8 or better, pot limit, holdem is the only game played at most casions. Mixed games is the choice of most big games. Most of you have never heard or seen it , 7 games 8 hands each some ante some flop games. procedure on all gmaes is differnt. Some one stated above that a monkey could deal it, I doubt it, some of the best players cant even pitch a card . security of the game is another thing. awnser to masonmom a canoe TIPS!!!

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
Dealers still make enough and thats exactly why there is so much demand for these jobs

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I have observed there is a shortage of dealers becasue they don't make enough.

The many dealers I have personally known in the past 15 years make around $35k-$45k a year. All of these dealers admit to losing $15k-$20k each year due to various gambling activities. So, yes, everyone should tip liberally because I’m sure it’s hard to live off of $25k a year.

As a former waiter, all I have to say is that all of the jobs which are tipped customarily are very different from the ones you have worked. No, a monkey could not deal. As a matter of fact, it is more likely that a monkey could sit in your cubicle, wear your two dollar shirt and cornstarch blue tie each day, and do your job.

If all of us "monkeys" left our jobs... you would complain like crazy about that. You know the custom is to tip, and yet you justify your cheapness in ways that are amazing to me.

Before you say that tipping is stupid, useless, or unnecessary, please, pleeease go get a job as a dealer, or a waiter.

Oh yeah, and as far as waiting tables goes, for every table, I pay a percentage to bartenders, hosts, and busboys. So when you dont tip, you actually cost me money.

[ QUOTE ]
As a former waiter, all I have to say is that all of the jobs which are tipped customarily are very different from the ones you have worked. No, a monkey could not deal. As a matter of fact, it is more likely that a monkey could sit in your cubicle, wear your two dollar shirt and cornstarch blue tie each day, and do your job.

If all of us "monkeys" left our jobs... you would complain like crazy about that. You know the custom is to tip, and yet you justify your cheapness in ways that are amazing to me.

Before you say that tipping is stupid, useless, or unnecessary, please, pleeease go get a job as a dealer, or a waiter.

Oh yeah, and as far as waiting tables goes, for every table, I pay a percentage to bartenders, hosts, and busboys. So when you dont tip, you actually cost me money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, where do you come up with this stuff? I never said I didn't tip, or called anyone a monkey. I tip $25 at the end of each dealer's down, if that makes me cheap, well, sorry.

Never worked in a cubicle, or had to wear any suit whether cheap or not.

Also, I take care of the waiters, too.

[Sciolist]

I agree, Harrah's already take a LOT out of the prize pool, and say that part of it is for the dealers. Dealers should form a proper union, not whine at the players - it's their employers who are stiffing them in their name.

[MyMindIsGoing]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah, and as far as waiting tables goes, for every table, I pay a percentage to bartenders, hosts, and busboys. So when you dont tip, you actually cost me money.

[/ QUOTE ]

If there were no tip system at all, you would not have to share it, since there would be nothing to share. And you can't be a smart person, if you pay the others by percentage, and less people tip, you will pay the others less, and it will not "cost" you anything.

If you do not get paid enough at your job it is not the customers problem. It is yours.

I said it before, tipping is bullsh*t!

[Sciolist]

[ QUOTE ]
I saw farha spit in a dealers face. I saw it. I would of killed him if he did it to me

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure I would have killed him if I was playing at the table at the time, or saw it from across the room.

[2+2 wannabe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
5k on a win of how much?

[/ QUOTE ]

1.15 m, i realize it isn't a big tip relative to the win, but with how much was taken out of the prize pool already, i felt this was more than adequate, and if its not going to be appreciated or im gonna be made to feel like an ass for *only* tipping 5k id rather keep it

[/ QUOTE ]

2% of 1.15M is a significant chunk of change

to be honest - I'd tip zero - you've already tipped 23K

[youtalkfunny]

[ QUOTE ]
This thread shows what miserable people a lot of poker dealers truly are...how despicable. And they wonder why they don't get many good tips. It's because they don't deserve them. AND NO I'M NOT A DEALER...just a decent human being.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was too easy.

[MyMindIsGoing]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I saw farha spit in a dealers face. I saw it. I would of killed him if he did it to me

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure I would have killed him if I was playing at the table at the time, or saw it from across the room.

[/ QUOTE ]

You people think violence is the answer to all your problems, are you realy human at all?

[Sciolist]

Er, I'm not going around calling people subhuman on an online forum, does that count?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dealers still make enough and thats exactly why there is so much demand for these jobs

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I have observed there is a shortage of dealers becasue they don't make enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so...shortage was caused because of the tremendous growth the last two years &amp; there is never a shortage online! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I saw farha spit in a dealers face. I saw it. I would of killed him if he did it to me

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure I would have killed him if I was playing at the table at the time, or saw it from across the room.

[/ QUOTE ]

You people think violence is the answer to all your problems, are you realy human at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope - but its the solution to things like this. Call me names, insult my mother, be a dick - but you spit on me you are gonna find it hard to chew your food for a while.

[MyMindIsGoing]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I saw farha spit in a dealers face. I saw it. I would of killed him if he did it to me

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure I would have killed him if I was playing at the table at the time, or saw it from across the room.

[/ QUOTE ]

You people think violence is the answer to all your problems, are you realy human at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope - but its the solution to things like this. Call me names, insult my mother, be a dick - but you spit on me you are gonna find it hard to chew your food for a while.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can only be american with an answer like that.

[MonkeeMan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I saw farha spit in a dealers face. I saw it. I would of killed him if he did it to me

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure I would have killed him if I was playing at the table at the time, or saw it from across the room.

[/ QUOTE ]

You people think violence is the answer to all your problems, are you realy human at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope - but its the solution to things like this. Call me names, insult my mother, be a dick - but you spit on me you are gonna find it hard to chew your food for a while.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can only be a man with an answer like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[MyMindIsGoing]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I saw farha spit in a dealers face. I saw it. I would of killed him if he did it to me

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure I would have killed him if I was playing at the table at the time, or saw it from across the room.

[/ QUOTE ]

You people think violence is the answer to all your problems, are you realy human at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope - but its the solution to things like this. Call me names, insult my mother, be a dick - but you spit on me you are gonna find it hard to chew your food for a while.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can only be a man with an answer like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think it is manly to beat people up and kill them, think again or grow up. I think they should have age restrictions on this forum, 18 and over only. No 14 year olds.

[MonkeeMan]

No, I think you should just beat them up for spitting on you. I reserve killing them for when they seriously [censored] with your family or country.

Its actually called self defense - which is perfectly legal and acceptable.

A few years ago I was dealing blackjack. I had one asian man in his 30s or so on a wicked losing streak. He was screaming at me in what I believe was Chinese. After he busted out, he got so upset that he flicked a card at me which cut my face and then spit at me.

I calmly locked my chips up, then came over the table and beat him into the floor.

When he tried to press charges he was advised to drop it because I was acting in self defense to both the spit and the card throwing which are both considered assault.

And to say I must be american... yup. And you must be moronic to think that it should be otherwise.

[ QUOTE ]

If you do not get paid enough at your job it is not the customers problem. It is yours.

I said it before, tipping is bullsh*t!

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you enjoy that $10 dinner? Oh by the way in addition to $1.60 in tax there is a $2 service charge now.

How's that poker game? Yes we had to change our rake sir it is now 10% with a $5 min. and no cap. Time games? Yes they are now $18 and up per half hour.

...enjoy


They don't tip in France, ever see what the rake/time charges are at the Aviation?

Aviation Club (http://www.aviationclubdefrance.com/poker_uk.html)

In a 10/20 limit game you would pay $10 per half! no hanks I'll pay half of that and if I win 5 pots in a half hour I'll gladly pay another $5. If not then I'm getting a deal compared to the alternative.

[stickman]

Absolutely, the employers are the ones pulling the wool over the dealer's eyes. Harrahs passes the buck onto the players, and the ealers buy into it.

[andyfox]

I'm shocked, shocked, to find out there might be assholes sitting at the poker tables. Maybe sometimes, in a ten-handed game, there might be eleven of them at the table?

[Peter]

[ QUOTE ]
but you spit on me you are gonna find it hard to chew your food for a while.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if someone spits on you, you are going to make it even easier for them to spit? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Well, easier for them to drool. Hard to spit with a broken jaw. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[MyMindIsGoing]

[ QUOTE ]
Its actually called self defense - which is perfectly legal and acceptable.

[/ QUOTE ]

If your "laws" allow people to kill each other beacuse of someone spitting on you, I can only say wow and feel sorry for you in such a lawless place.

[ QUOTE ]
If your "laws" allow people to kill each other beacuse of someone spitting on you, I can only say wow and feel sorry for you in such a lawless place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Our laws allow us to protect ourselves from assault. I find it hard to believe that yours dont. But if you don't like the laws of this country, you are more than welcome to stay out.

And where do you get "killed" from? Exaggerate much?

[MyMindIsGoing]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If your "laws" allow people to kill each other beacuse of someone spitting on you, I can only say wow and feel sorry for you in such a lawless place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Our laws allow us to protect ourselves from assault. I find it hard to believe that yours dont. But if you don't like the laws of this country, you are more than welcome to stay out.

And where do you get "killed" from? Exaggerate much?

[/ QUOTE ]

From here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=gossip&amp;Number=3768630&amp;Foru m=,All_Forums,&amp;Words=&amp;Searchpage=0&amp;Limit=25&amp;Main=3 749076&amp;Search=true&amp;where=&amp;Name=37817&amp;daterange=&amp;ne werval=&amp;newertype=&amp;olderval=&amp;oldertype=&amp;bodyprev=# Post3768630

*yes I do love posting long urls*

Ok - well, that wasnt me so dont hang that one on me. That being said - you are a cheap bastard if you dont tip... and I would highly recommend not spitting on people here in the US. It wont end well for you.

Come to think of it, I wouldnt recommend not tipping here in the US either. Ive seen coctail waitresses doctor drinks before... a little visine does nasty things to one's digestive tract.

[MyMindIsGoing]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok - well, that wasnt me so dont hang that one on me. That being said - you are a cheap bastard if you dont tip... and I would highly recommend not spitting on people here in the US. It wont end well for you.

Come to think of it, I wouldnt recommend not tipping here in the US either. Ive seen coctail waitresses doctor drinks before... a little visine does nasty things to one's digestive tract.

[/ QUOTE ]

And americans wonder why the rest of the world do not like you? *LOL*

[drewjustdrew]

Tipping is not a custom in Europe. At least that is my understanding. Two different systems. That's all. Unfortunately US travelers in europe don't have the option of withholding payment whereas Europeans in the US do. Good thing we're all rich and fat. Helps to cushion the blow.

No, not really.

Agreed. And dont anyone for a second believe that I advocate tipping everyone. Tip for good service, the better the service, the better the tip.

If the service is bad, they didnt earn a tip.

[MyMindIsGoing]

[ QUOTE ]
Tip for good service, the better the service, the better the tip.
If the service is bad, they didnt earn a tip.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now someone is alteast making sense. The problem is most "service" you get these days are not very good, so you should not tip as often. The "automatic" tipping system is pure crap.

Btw, I am from the tipping school, but changed sides after years of overtipping.

I swing both ways. If someone does a good job, I'll seriously over tip them. You dont see this much at a poker table since there really is a limit of how much a dealer can do. But if a dealer is effecient, in control and the game runs smoothly, thats worth a buck when I take down a pot.

Waiters and cocktail waitresses get good tips from me. For a cocktail waitress in a casino, try tipping her a few bucks or maybe even (GASP) a 5. I promise you wont be waiting for a drink again. A few months ago I was playing craps in AC. I tipped my waitress a red on my first drink. Every time she came back to the table she would bring another drink. Half the time I didnt even see her. When I did, I'd tip her a buck or two, but I set the stage and got the best cocktail service of any casino visit I had ever had. So now, thats my standard - a $5 on the first round and a buck or two after.

Part of the problem with tipping is that in some places (Foxwoods for example) dealer tips are pooled... so the douchebag that just screwed up the last 10 hands is getting the same amount as the hot blonde who ran a smooth game, was charming and generally made for a good time. That just sucks. I think sharing tips is stupid.

[accountant71]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its actually called self defense - which is perfectly legal and acceptable.

[/ QUOTE ]

If your "laws" allow people to kill each other beacuse of someone spitting on you, I can only say wow and feel sorry for you in such a lawless place.

[/ QUOTE ]

You dont feel sorry for us. You feel jealous of us because you cant get a passport to come here. United States is the number country in the world and its because we dont let goofballs in here. God bless America.

[accountant71]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok - well, that wasnt me so dont hang that one on me. That being said - you are a cheap bastard if you dont tip... and I would highly recommend not spitting on people here in the US. It wont end well for you.

Come to think of it, I wouldnt recommend not tipping here in the US either. Ive seen coctail waitresses doctor drinks before... a little visine does nasty things to one's digestive tract.

[/ QUOTE ]

And americans wonder why the rest of the world do not like you? *LOL*

[/ QUOTE ]

We dont want the rest of the world to like. Just fear us. Mission accomplished. God bless America.

[MyMindIsGoing]

[ QUOTE ]
Just fear us. Mission accomplished. God bless America.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not fear you, terrorists or the bird flu.

[MyMindIsGoing]

[ QUOTE ]
You feel jealous of us because you cant get a passport to come here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I can, no problem at all.

[accountant71]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You feel jealous of us because you cant get a passport to come here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I can, no problem at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep telling yourself that.

[bigfishead]

Ok we got a bunch of idiots here in this thread that actually think a monkey can deal. While most of you coudnt deal yourselves out of a paper bag.

This is going to be very very long but maybe it'll get 1-2 of you numbskulls to have a little respect for dealers.

Firstly, 20+ yrs ago there wasnt a decent sized game ANYWHERE in LV or CALIFORNIA that you could beat. EVER!!!...I mean EVER BEAT. Why? Because Games were handled (I dont mean baby limits) in one of two ways. 1. Self dealt by the players with a regular time collector that came around every 1/2 hr. Whats this equal? THIEVES dealing the games. And fully over 50% of the time the management &amp; floorpeople were involved!! 2. When they did have dealers in the box in higher limit games, they were freaking MECHANICS!! Or...as was often done, you had 6 guys sitting on 6-7 cushions so they could get high enuf to see the painted decks!!! Where'd those come in from? MANAGEMENT!!

In the early 80's a partner/owner in a cardroom whom was also previously known as one of these thieves, was involved in creating the "California Cardroom Assn" Maybe he had a life changing experience hell I dunno. But this assn was HIGHLY involved in cleaning up the BUSINESS of poker. Soon you had dealers that were not thieves and were in fact taught things to watch out for to protect the game. The SOLE JOB of a dealer is to PROTECT THE PLAYERS AND THE INTEGRITY OF THE GAME. Thats it. WE(yes I am one) are supposed to be there to protect your freaking money!!

Nowadays there are many good staffs in the business. Some from the old days that understand this aspect well.

There are also many dealers and floor staffs that have no clue of the above mentioned.

here's a few long ass storys of things within the last 6 months at Bellagio that I have had to deal with yet was never "rewarded" in any way other than the $6.15hr I make in wages.

$300-600 (maybe higher cant remember but you get the drift) 2-7 Lowball. 5 mins before I push into this game I hear the dealer from it call for a setup and see him get one. Now I go into the game. Within 5 mins, I see a card with a fingernail mark come into the muck. I pull it aside, call for a setup, finish the hand, card still face down, floor comes with a setup but looks funny at me as I say "out of action", meaning this deck is no good. Hand over, floor looking over my shoulder, I say..."is it a deuce"? flip it over, sure enuf it's a 2. I break it, tell the floor "it got nailed", loud enuf for the table to hear me.

I inspect the new deck, (remember we have shufflemasters) stick green deack in machine, inspect 2nd deck, stick brn deck in machine, deal green deck. TWO HANDS LATER when I deal the green deck for only the 2nd time, I see a nail mark in a card AS I PITCH IT! Light caught it just right for me to catch this in-air. I call for a setup "out of action!!" Pull the card asside when the player mucks after missing on all 3 draws, the players are whining and screaming at my about "were paying time here" wtf is wrong now?" Floor comes over, I say, "gee think this is a deuce?" sure enuf when I flip it over it's a deuce. Now a little louder I tell the floor someone is nailing deuces. Nobody seems to give a shilt that I am protecting this game. How much did I make? $3 bucks for 1/2 hr down.

Johnny Chan is not, I repeat NOT known for tipping. He IS known for being a major heartache to dealers. I have dealt to him no less than 30 downs in the last 6 months and have not recd more than $5 bucks TOTAL from him. yet let me tell you he has jumped all over my ass when I called for a setup in the big game (they are normally replaced ONLY on the hour) after seeing a bad mark on a card. And after he said "dealer wtf are you doing?" I told him "bad card" he stfu but never replied in any sort of kind manner or in a greatful manner for protecting the game.

Or the time when the first pot was a time pot and the winner was on his cell phone and I didnt interrupt him for the 20 mnutes he was on the cell phone to collect the time, and Johnny jumps my shizzle again. But I calmly reply, Johnny I didnt feel it was polite to interrupt him while on the phone just to collect time. Johnny then stfu and walked till I was gone.

Or what about the time I see two guys playing opposite ends of the table in a red chip game. I catch something unusual in motions (casual motions actually but repeated) and tell a floor person you may want to put a camera on those two. Yep they were soon told they were welcom to play but not at the same tables. Hmmm havent seen them in a while. Was I protecting YOUR game?

or just last nite....$200 a point Chinese Poker. 4 handed. Floor tells me to collect $8 per player for time and get $5 per for myself. (This is standard for this game) So the guy that wins the most in the first hand gives me $50 bux, says "drop $32, give me $5 back, keep $13 for yourself. Not what they were told, and I dont say anything. BUT&gt;&gt;&gt; 3 hrs later, lucky me, I get re-routed back into this game. Now it's 5 handed. So diff guy wins the timepot and I tell him $45 for time, $20 for me, $65 total. Holy crimany he goes apeshit. I point out the placard on the table that says $8 bucks per player. i call the floor but they arent paying attn and I'm being called every mfer in the book so when one guy says "jesus christ we've been here all nite dealer we tip you so you shouldnt care" I respond with a admittedly smart-assed comment, "why should I give you a break, you didnt toke me what you were supposed to last time I went thru here" Finally I just told them " I dont care, dont pay the rake, dont toke me, I really dont care. it aint gonna make me or the Bellagio rich." So the guy throws me $30 bucks, says "drop that" and throws me $15 bucks and says "thats for you". I say ty and carry on dealing. HOWEVER....15 mins later..."tilt-o-whirl" grabs my preset dealt deck (in chinese we deal out the next hand while they set the first, but they are left in front of the box till current hand is over) and scrambles em for the THIRD time!! The first 2 times I never said anything just looked at him and redealt. This time I dont even move to redeal for at least 30 seconds. Now he's calling me a mother fuka and everything else. This is too far...I tell him loudly..."hey...I aint here to be your mf'er, or called a mf'er. I just deal. I'm just the mailman I dont write the mail, I deliver it". You know that the other players were trying to say I was outta line? And 1 went to the shift supervisor on the side. After my down, I told him everything, and he told me not to worry about it. I wasnt out of line, he'd handle it.

Fantastic thing happens every year up at Lucky Chances near SF, Cal. They have 1 tournament each shift for the staff. the winner gets an netry and hotel into a major tournament. It gets dealt by PLAYERS!! They make an effort to also get the players that give the dealers the most gruff to deal. And the ones that are the most indignant towards dealers. USUALLY, within 15 minutes of a down these players have made 12-15 errors and while they are never ridiculed by the dealers, they are joked with, and the player/dealer is now gaining a respect for the dealers. I suggest doing this ANYWHERE it's ok with the local gaming commision/office. A fantastic new respect comes from players just like those that posted here in this thread.

I could give many more stories like the ones above. If you DONT want dealers protecting your game, just keep stiffing them and treating them like crap. We'll all leave the business soon enough for you to go broke then.

I'm off my soapbox and high horse now. Gotta get ready for work...killed my pre-work naptime for this!!

[Ulysses]

FWIW, you sound like an excellent dealer.

[razor]

[ QUOTE ]
*yes I do love posting long urls*

[/ QUOTE ]

Even a moran can post clean links. Don't be a [censored] idiot.

[Ulysses]

Too bad you don't know the law, steve.

Yes, the spitting and card-throwing are indeed assault, and you could press charges on him for that.

However, what you did was not a reasonable reaction to your perceived threat, and you would surely have been found guilty of assault and punished far more severely than him had he had decent advice or counsel. The fact that you calmly took the time to lock your chips up before beating up this guy almost guarantees that you would be found guilty.

You got very lucky that he didn't know the law either.

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, you sound like an excellent dealer.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know bigfishead in real life, he is one of the best dealers in the business.

[bigfishead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
*yes I do love posting long urls*

[/ QUOTE ]

Even a moran can post clean links. Don't be a [censored] idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

you fukin idiot. where's Our "nut kicker" when I need him....oops...he could kick us both in the nuts...I'll shaddup.

Thanks El Diablo

[bigfishead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, you sound like an excellent dealer.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know bigfishead in real life, he is one of the best dealers in the business.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yo Randy, Take it easy man! I could get a complex or something!!
BTW, I didnt tell ya about screwing up in the 400-800 game twice in one down last nite. I was having a real bad nite. It happens. Wasnt major....just simple lack of focus errors in split pot games. Point is...we all screw up from time to time though.

And since I dont have tits I will NEVER make what some of the worst female dealers in the business make. Kinda ironic huh?


BTW, guys...There are times I am playing that the dealer is just so bad that I get up and walk so I dont have to watch nor feel compelled to toke them, especially if they know I'm a dealer. But I NEVER EVER wing cards at them or give them crap in the box. That only gets them distracted even more and makes things worse with bigger &amp; better errors to follow as they are thinking of how much they'd like to nut-kick your/our asses.

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm shocked, shocked, to find out there might be assholes sitting at the poker tables. Maybe sometimes, in a ten-handed game, there might be eleven of them at the table?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://p.vtourist.com/161815-A_classic_movie-Casablanca.jpg

[andyfox]

Here's looking at you, Daryn.

[lighterjobs]

[ QUOTE ]
The biggest problem I have with these dealers is that it's always about them and how they suffer making less than a dollar per deal on average. I have to remind everyone that its not about the dealer, instead its about the customer (PLAYER). Without the players there is no game and all of these jackasses would be working at McDonalds. Remember that point and GET BACK TO WORK you idiots. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

who is this bitch? 12 posts and she thinks she runs this place.

[DcifrThs]

i am very glad i read that.

in the ameristar in st.louis we have literally 1 great dealer. he is better than 95% of the dealers i saw in vegas. even in the 100/200+ games. but in st.louis the tips are shared by all the dealers. i know this dealer likes his job and is great at it...i wish i could tip him instead of all the other dealers who do not take the same care/deal with the same enthusiasm/ability as him.

have you ever been in that kind of situation? does it affect the way you deal?

and also, i must echo with the sentiment here that you seem to be an excellent dealer.

thanks for taking the time to post.

Barron

[Joey Legend]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I saw farha spit in a dealers face. I saw it. I would of killed him if he did it to me

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure I would have killed him if I was playing at the table at the time, or saw it from across the room.

[/ QUOTE ]

You people think violence is the answer to all your problems, are you realy human at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope - but its the solution to things like this. Call me names, insult my mother, be a dick - but you spit on me you are gonna find it hard to chew your food for a while.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can only be a man with an answer like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think it is manly to beat people up and kill them, think again or grow up. I think they should have age restrictions on this forum, 18 and over only. No 14 year olds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, I'd sure like to meet you and spit on your face for a whole day. You'd be cool with that,right?

[Joey Legend]

[ QUOTE ]
. When they did have dealers in the box in higher limit games, they were freaking MECHANICS!!

[/ QUOTE ]

May have been true in the past, but these days I'd like to see a mechanic rig the automatic shuffler...

[ QUOTE ]
Too bad you don't know the law, steve.

Yes, the spitting and card-throwing are indeed assault, and you could press charges on him for that.

However, what you did was not a reasonable reaction to your perceived threat, and you would surely have been found guilty of assault and punished far more severely than him had he had decent advice or counsel. The fact that you calmly took the time to lock your chips up before beating up this guy almost guarantees that you would be found guilty.

You got very lucky that he didn't know the law either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it was the Assistant DA that advised him not to press charges. There was more to it than what I described - but either way, my point is the same:

The big stack of chips covers the felt in front of you, it doesnt cover your ass.

[MyMindIsGoing]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, I'd sure like to meet you and spit on your face for a whole day. You'd be cool with that,right?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but someone spitting in your face does not justify beating someone up or killing them. If you are too blind to see the difference your brain cannot function properly. Not everthing is black or white.

[BottlesOf]

[ QUOTE ]
i am by no means a stingy tipper, i tip well, but there are a bunch of things that piss me off about some dealers:

1. what difference does it make if you dealt me a 1000$ pot or a 100$ one? if a pot was complicated and involved a sidepot, etc, and was handled well i will tip extra for that but other wise why should a dealer be tipped in proportion to the size of the pot?

2. there are way too many dealers who feel too goddamned entitled. i know so many dealers who do a mediocre job and still complain about average tips. STFU. there are a lot of people who get bent out of shape by this who shouldnt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said.

[Joey Legend]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow, I'd sure like to meet you and spit on your face for a whole day. You'd be cool with that,right?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but someone spitting in your face does not justify beating someone up or killing them. If you are too blind to see the difference your brain cannot function properly. Not everthing is black or white.

[/ QUOTE ]

Killing them? I don't think any sane person would do that, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up.....

But what exactly does it justify? You saying "Hey, Sir, please don't spit in my face and..oh god! You spit right in my mouth when I was asking you not to spit in my face, oh god, why god why?"

If someone spits in your face, its because you let them, I think its clear provocation and if they don't think that they will get knocked around some for it.. well, thats a lesson they need to learn quickly so they stop spitting in peoples faces. It's not exactly hygenic either, what if they have some kind of disease? Will standing their and turning the other cheek stop them? Will talk? Maybe it would if they were a reasonable person, but if they were reasonable they wouldn't be spitting on strangers to start with. In particular if its at your place of business, where you can't easily just leave, they absolutely deserve to be laid out on the ground and thrown out by the ass, possibly passing through a glass window on the way out if one is avalible.

I mean, I may be an american as per your eariler accusation, but I'm a bleeding heart liberal american, and still I can't even start to see how a person would not think that was an offense where physical retaliation isn't understandable, and, in fact, be so horrifed that a person might think of beating up someone who spit on them that they felt compelled to post about it... Or to think that a person would be able to restrain themselves from some kind of outburst being confronted with that... unless I guess they were reasonably sure the spitter would whip them in a stand up fight and actully cared if they would at that point.... I don't know, maybe it's because I live in a civil community where people arn't jackoffs and don't normally go around spitting on people that I'm sure if one did it would shock someone in to a justified physical retaliation. Maybe things are diffrent where you live?

[bigfishead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
. When they did have dealers in the box in higher limit games, they were freaking MECHANICS!!

[/ QUOTE ]

May have been true in the past, but these days I'd like to see a mechanic rig the automatic shuffler...

[/ QUOTE ]

First the point you seem to have missed is dealers are there to protect the game. Did you miss the part about marked cards? Or the one on two colluders? AND...Most cardrooms have yet to go to auto shufflers on all the tables.

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
. When they did have dealers in the box in higher limit games, they were freaking MECHANICS!!

[/ QUOTE ]

May have been true in the past, but these days I'd like to see a mechanic rig the automatic shuffler...

[/ QUOTE ]

I can knock one of those out of action in under 10 seconds to force a hand shuffle ecery hand.

[Rick Nebiolo]

Great post although a little hyperbolic in spots (Over the years I've "sort of" learned to avoid this /images/graemlins/grin.gif).

When games were player dealt in the Gardena days you really saw atrocious dealing. The introduction of house dealers in the early eighties was when the poker boom first started in LA.

Also note that Barry Greenstein 's book has some interesting things to say regarding the need to protect your cards in the big game. Wonder if others noticed that.

~ Rick

PS I meant to post the related, somewhat whimsical and far more innocuous Tipping Story (http://tinyurl.com/b3lvf) in this forum but screwed up and posted it in the B&amp;M forum. Thanks ot Photoc for pointing out my mistake.

[Spook]

I won a pot the other day I probably shouldn't have because the player in the one seat didn't tip, and didn't protect his hand with a chip.
whoops.
I didn't tip that hand,it felt a little wierd. but tipped more the next hand I won and at the end of the down.

[bigfishead]

[ QUOTE ]
I won a pot the other day I probably shouldn't have because the player in the one seat didn't tip, and didn't protect his hand with a chip.
whoops.
I didn't tip that hand,it felt a little wierd. but tipped more the next hand I won and at the end of the down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny how accidents like that happen...especially with stiffs.

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
I won a pot the other day I probably shouldn't have because the player in the one seat didn't tip, and didn't protect his hand with a chip.
whoops.
I didn't tip that hand,it felt a little wierd. but tipped more the next hand I won and at the end of the down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw an accident like that once. Player in the one seat is bitching at the dealer in a tournament. A couple hands later the player gets all-in and the dealer accidently grabs his cards out of his hands and mucks them.

[bigfishead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I won a pot the other day I probably shouldn't have because the player in the one seat didn't tip, and didn't protect his hand with a chip.
whoops.
I didn't tip that hand,it felt a little wierd. but tipped more the next hand I won and at the end of the down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw an accident like that once. Player in the one seat is bitching at the dealer in a tournament. A couple hands later the player gets all-in and the dealer accidently grabs his cards out of his hands and mucks them.

[/ QUOTE ]

SAWEEET BABY!! I dont have the balls to do that tho.

[Dominic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

This is why I will rake $10 for each pot you win. Its not good for me but the casino loves it. If you dont like it, go to another casino.

[/ QUOTE ]

So let me get this straight:

1) you feel screwed because you don't make enough money.
2) the players give a substantial amount of money in the form of rake to the casino.
3) The casino, in turn, keeps most of the money as profit and pays what you consider to be a "relatively" small amount -- effectively being the ones who screw you.

So, you decide to give the entity that screws you (i.e., the casino) more money, and take that money from the person who provides the casino with it's income (i.e., the player)?

That's got to be up there on the nastiness scale. And you complain that some of the players are mean?

Well, whatever helps you sleep well at night...

[/ QUOTE ]

I do lose a little sleep over it. I sleep 12 hours a day and if I didnt double rake the stiffs, I would sleep 14 hours.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can't wait for you to double rake a member of the Gambling Commision one night and lose your job AND get the casino fined for your despicable behaviour.

Your job is about SERVICE. If you get treated badly or stiffed out of the tip, you let it roll of your back and/or report it to the management.

THIS IS YOUR JOB DESCRIPTION.

[jwvdcw]

jed?

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am being tipped for doing a good job. If I do good job I sould be tipped.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, fair enough. I do tip for good service. If you were my dealer, and didn't [censored] anything up, I'd tip you.

[ QUOTE ]


I make mim wage and rely on tips to live.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, first you say that dealers should be tipped for good service, I, and probably 99% of 2+2ers agree with that. But, no one likes a whiny ass dealer/waiter/cab driver etc, who bitches about how little their paid and how much they need tips.

YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO TIPS. Tips are given at the DISCRESION of the customer, if they are happy with their service. Once again, TIPS ARE NOT AN ENTITLEMENT.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with this. Minimum wage was $5.15 when I was in school. When I worked as a waiter, I only made $2/hour. So how did they justify paying less than minimum wage? Because the restaurant(and the government) recognizes that tips are EXPECTED.

If you don't have money to tip, then you don't have money to use that service whether it be cards, food, or whatever else.

Unless your dealer/waiter is outright rude, he deserves to be tipped.

Just my two cents.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am being tipped for doing a good job. If I do good job I sould be tipped.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tipping is one of the worst scams in modern history. If you do not make enough on your job, get an education and get a higher paid job or learn to live with low income. I hope Penn &amp; Teller bring this up sometime, coz it is bulls*t!

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't disagree more.

A restaurant could charage $10 for a meal and no tips or they could charge $8 for a meal and request that you tip based upon service. Which method do you think will make the waiters work harder and therefore give you a better dining experience?

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
no they want a buck every time...they expect top make $50+ an hour. That unreasonable for a job that a monkey can do.
They don't even shuffle any more. I suggest tipping $.50 every other hand..,if you don't like it get another job!

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no clue what dealers make, but I agree that it shouldn't be much more than $15/hour. Just doesn't seem to be worth much more.

Again...just my two cents.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Pink in Reservoir Dogs had a very good speech about tipping. do you tip fast food workers? do you tip your doctor when going for a check up? why not? but society says, "tip them, but don't tip them"
it shouldn't matter if a pot is 100 or 1000, why would a dealer expect that much more? it's the player's money. imagine a cashier who sold a winning lottery ticket and demanded a cut. greed...
there are so many sides to this argument..
basically, with me what it boils down to is: if a dealer is fast and does the job well, and the pot is worthwhile, i will throw him a buck or .50 when playing 3/6. if the dealer does a bad job or takes a longer time dealing hands, then he is not rewarded. tips are not required, they are optional.
just like others have said, if the dealers complain about not making enough money, they can get another job.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mr.Pink(and you) was missing the point. Certain jobs pay less and offer cheaper services to the customer because they know that society says to tip them.

You can disagree with that if you want(personally, I think its great becasue it ensures better service), but if you don't tip then you're really underpaying for the product because with no tips they would raise their prices and pay the workers more base pay.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

So, you decide to give the entity that screws you (i.e., the casino) more money, and take that money from the person who provides the casino with it's income (i.e., the player)?

That's got to be up there on the nastiness scale.


[/ QUOTE ]

And possibly the stupidity scale, too. The decision is to give the casino money from the people that provide the tips. Yes, overraking that one pot screws the person that did not tip, but once that money is off the table it's off, and not any of the other players can win it and return it as a tip, either.

<font color="white">Why am I even posting to a tipping thread? Tipping threads suck.</font>

[/ QUOTE ]


lol...very good posting.

[KingMedicine]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't tip period.
i don't tip waiters, valet, dealers, or anybody...those dollars really add up.

[/ QUOTE ]

mr. pink

[Photoc]

[ QUOTE ]
Can't wait for you to double rake a member of the Gambling Commision one night

[/ QUOTE ]

Dominic, you need to learn the rules of the NGC before posting this stuff, lol.

Gaming commission is not allowed to play ANY GAME in a casino in the state of Nevada

[MonkeeMan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Pink in Reservoir Dogs had a very good speech about tipping. do you tip fast food workers? do you tip your doctor when going for a check up? why not? but society says, "tip them, but don't tip them"
it shouldn't matter if a pot is 100 or 1000, why would a dealer expect that much more? it's the player's money. imagine a cashier who sold a winning lottery ticket and demanded a cut. greed...
there are so many sides to this argument..
basically, with me what it boils down to is: if a dealer is fast and does the job well, and the pot is worthwhile, i will throw him a buck or .50 when playing 3/6. if the dealer does a bad job or takes a longer time dealing hands, then he is not rewarded. tips are not required, they are optional.
just like others have said, if the dealers complain about not making enough money, they can get another job.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mr.Pink(and you) was missing the point. Certain jobs pay less and offer cheaper services to the customer because they know that society says to tip them.

You can disagree with that if you want(personally, I think its great becasue it ensures better service), but if you don't tip then you're really underpaying for the product because with no tips they would raise their prices and pay the workers more base pay.

[/ QUOTE ]

I originally replied to midfielderdave's post with
[ QUOTE ]
Cough up a buck you cheap bastard.


[/ QUOTE ]
which was Joe's perfect reply to Mr. Pink's speech (and that post).

[Dan Mezick]

Thank you for your point.

I believe courtesy is what is owed. A token of courtesy. Unless of course you want to be disliked. Then tip nothing.

As an aside, I won a local tourney one time, the prize was about $1200. I did not make a deal and won it fair and square.

I tipped the bartender and waitress a combined $60. I was told that was not enough and $100 was expected, since most players chop at the end and in that case, $100 was the rule.

Needless to say, I was a little put off by the "gratitude"

[accountant71]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I won a pot the other day I probably shouldn't have because the player in the one seat didn't tip, and didn't protect his hand with a chip.
whoops.
I didn't tip that hand,it felt a little wierd. but tipped more the next hand I won and at the end of the down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw an accident like that once. Player in the one seat is bitching at the dealer in a tournament. A couple hands later the player gets all-in and the dealer accidently grabs his cards out of his hands and mucks them.

[/ QUOTE ]

SAWEEET BABY!! I dont have the balls to do that tho.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have "accidentally" mucked a stiff's cards that werent protected. Once a stiff and a good tipper were heads up in 20-40 game. Big pot. Good tipper bets, stiff calls, but good tipper thinks the stiff folded and throws his cards in. Guess what? Good tipper got his hand back and won, stiff went nuts, stiff got thrown out, I couldnt stop laughing. Once a stiff raised with the nuts, a good tipper reraised, stiff doesnt realize reraise and just turns hand up. I killed his hand and nothing he could do since he threw his cards in without calling. This is all very amusing but could be avoided by just giving up that buck. These cats would have to stiff me a very long time to get even for those pots they lost. If there is a decision to made, the floor will almost always go against the stiff. It doesnt matter if its right or wrong because "the floorpersons decision is final". You might just want to ask yourself "Is it worth me not tipping?"

[somapopper]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I saw farha spit in a dealers face. I saw it. I would of killed him if he did it to me

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure I would have killed him if I was playing at the table at the time, or saw it from across the room.

[/ QUOTE ]

You people think violence is the answer to all your problems, are you realy human at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope - but its the solution to things like this. Call me names, insult my mother, be a dick - but you spit on me you are gonna find it hard to chew your food for a while.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can only be a man with an answer like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think it is manly to beat people up and kill them, think again or grow up. I think they should have age restrictions on this forum, 18 and over only. No 14 year olds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amazingly, by the time I was 18 I fully understood hyperbole. Perhaps it was the superior American educational system?

[somapopper]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I won a pot the other day I probably shouldn't have because the player in the one seat didn't tip, and didn't protect his hand with a chip.
whoops.
I didn't tip that hand,it felt a little wierd. but tipped more the next hand I won and at the end of the down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw an accident like that once. Player in the one seat is bitching at the dealer in a tournament. A couple hands later the player gets all-in and the dealer accidently grabs his cards out of his hands and mucks them.

[/ QUOTE ]

SAWEEET BABY!! I dont have the balls to do that tho.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have "accidentally" mucked a stiff's cards that werent protected. Once a stiff and a good tipper were heads up in 20-40 game. Big pot. Good tipper bets, stiff calls, but good tipper thinks the stiff folded and throws his cards in. Guess what? Good tipper got his hand back and won, stiff went nuts, stiff got thrown out, I couldnt stop laughing. Once a stiff raised with the nuts, a good tipper reraised, stiff doesnt realize reraise and just turns hand up. I killed his hand and nothing he could do since he threw his cards in without calling. This is all very amusing but could be avoided by just giving up that buck. These cats would have to stiff me a very long time to get even for those pots they lost. If there is a decision to made, the floor will almost always go against the stiff. It doesnt matter if its right or wrong because "the floorpersons decision is final". You might just want to ask yourself "Is it worth me not tipping?"

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is pretty silly and hurts the game. I can't stand the people who don't tip, but a fair game is pretty essential to what we do. If I tip a dealer or a floorperson consistently and I suspected they issued biased decisions as a result of tips this is one of the very few situations where I would consider not tipping them, because I can't support this kind of behavior.

[imported_adhoc]

[ QUOTE ]
if you don't feel responsible for costing some players money why do you feel entitled to be compensated by the players whom win money?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.cigar-pipe.com/gr/ktash2008.jpg

[stabn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I won a pot the other day I probably shouldn't have because the player in the one seat didn't tip, and didn't protect his hand with a chip.
whoops.
I didn't tip that hand,it felt a little wierd. but tipped more the next hand I won and at the end of the down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw an accident like that once. Player in the one seat is bitching at the dealer in a tournament. A couple hands later the player gets all-in and the dealer accidently grabs his cards out of his hands and mucks them.

[/ QUOTE ]

SAWEEET BABY!! I dont have the balls to do that tho.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have "accidentally" mucked a stiff's cards that werent protected. Once a stiff and a good tipper were heads up in 20-40 game. Big pot. Good tipper bets, stiff calls, but good tipper thinks the stiff folded and throws his cards in. Guess what? Good tipper got his hand back and won, stiff went nuts, stiff got thrown out, I couldnt stop laughing. Once a stiff raised with the nuts, a good tipper reraised, stiff doesnt realize reraise and just turns hand up. I killed his hand and nothing he could do since he threw his cards in without calling. This is all very amusing but could be avoided by just giving up that buck. These cats would have to stiff me a very long time to get even for those pots they lost. If there is a decision to made, the floor will almost always go against the stiff. It doesnt matter if its right or wrong because "the floorpersons decision is final". You might just want to ask yourself "Is it worth me not tipping?"

[/ QUOTE ]

You are a shitty dealer.

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I won a pot the other day I probably shouldn't have because the player in the one seat didn't tip, and didn't protect his hand with a chip.
whoops.
I didn't tip that hand,it felt a little wierd. but tipped more the next hand I won and at the end of the down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw an accident like that once. Player in the one seat is bitching at the dealer in a tournament. A couple hands later the player gets all-in and the dealer accidently grabs his cards out of his hands and mucks them.

[/ QUOTE ]

SAWEEET BABY!! I dont have the balls to do that tho.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have "accidentally" mucked a stiff's cards that werent protected. Once a stiff and a good tipper were heads up in 20-40 game. Big pot. Good tipper bets, stiff calls, but good tipper thinks the stiff folded and throws his cards in. Guess what? Good tipper got his hand back and won, stiff went nuts, stiff got thrown out, I couldnt stop laughing. Once a stiff raised with the nuts, a good tipper reraised, stiff doesnt realize reraise and just turns hand up. I killed his hand and nothing he could do since he threw his cards in without calling. This is all very amusing but could be avoided by just giving up that buck. These cats would have to stiff me a very long time to get even for those pots they lost. If there is a decision to made, the floor will almost always go against the stiff. It doesnt matter if its right or wrong because "the floorpersons decision is final". You might just want to ask yourself "Is it worth me not tipping?"

[/ QUOTE ]

You are a shitty dealer.

[/ QUOTE ]

This happens a lot more than anyone would like to admit.

[stabn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I won a pot the other day I probably shouldn't have because the player in the one seat didn't tip, and didn't protect his hand with a chip.
whoops.
I didn't tip that hand,it felt a little wierd. but tipped more the next hand I won and at the end of the down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw an accident like that once. Player in the one seat is bitching at the dealer in a tournament. A couple hands later the player gets all-in and the dealer accidently grabs his cards out of his hands and mucks them.

[/ QUOTE ]

SAWEEET BABY!! I dont have the balls to do that tho.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have "accidentally" mucked a stiff's cards that werent protected. Once a stiff and a good tipper were heads up in 20-40 game. Big pot. Good tipper bets, stiff calls, but good tipper thinks the stiff folded and throws his cards in. Guess what? Good tipper got his hand back and won, stiff went nuts, stiff got thrown out, I couldnt stop laughing. Once a stiff raised with the nuts, a good tipper reraised, stiff doesnt realize reraise and just turns hand up. I killed his hand and nothing he could do since he threw his cards in without calling. This is all very amusing but could be avoided by just giving up that buck. These cats would have to stiff me a very long time to get even for those pots they lost. If there is a decision to made, the floor will almost always go against the stiff. It doesnt matter if its right or wrong because "the floorpersons decision is final". You might just want to ask yourself "Is it worth me not tipping?"

[/ QUOTE ]

You are a shitty dealer.

[/ QUOTE ]

This happens a lot more than anyone would like to admit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm getting that feeling and it makes me sad /images/graemlins/frown.gif. I can see dealers being frustrated but [censored] with the integrity of the game because someone didn't tip is pretty f'd up.

[bigfishead]

Recently a guy in our room who is a total and absolute stiff(I mean 100% stiff) was in a $20-40 Omaha/8 or better game when I was dealing. On the river he turns over his hand and says something like "I got the same straight. Chop it up". But I notice he is thinking they both have the same low straight, when he doesnt notice he also has a higher straight for all of the high end of the pot.

I had an easy shot at "getting even with him as nobody at the table was paying attn. However, keeping with the integrity of the game, I forced myself to give him 3/4's of the pot, not 1/2. AS MUCH AS IT HURT TO DO SO!!

I still got the big airball from him. And boy did I want to say something.

Thats alright tho. If I am in his game, I just toke off whatever chips he put into any pot I am involved with him and win.

[juanez]

Kick-ass post.

[Homer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
no they want a buck every time...they expect top make $50+ an hour. That unreasonable for a job that a monkey can do.
They don't even shuffle any more. I suggest tipping $.50 every other hand..,if you don't like it get another job!

[/ QUOTE ]

Cough up a buck you cheap bastard.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is tipping what he believes is a fair amount for this occupation. It doesn't make him a "cheap bastard". Why do people confuse tipping .50/hand with being cheap?

[Homer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As a former waiter, all I have to say is that all of the jobs which are tipped customarily are very different from the ones you have worked. No, a monkey could not deal. As a matter of fact, it is more likely that a monkey could sit in your cubicle, wear your two dollar shirt and cornstarch blue tie each day, and do your job.

If all of us "monkeys" left our jobs... you would complain like crazy about that. You know the custom is to tip, and yet you justify your cheapness in ways that are amazing to me.

Before you say that tipping is stupid, useless, or unnecessary, please, pleeease go get a job as a dealer, or a waiter.

Oh yeah, and as far as waiting tables goes, for every table, I pay a percentage to bartenders, hosts, and busboys. So when you dont tip, you actually cost me money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, where do you come up with this stuff? I never said I didn't tip, or called anyone a monkey. I tip $25 at the end of each dealer's down, if that makes me cheap, well, sorry.

Never worked in a cubicle, or had to wear any suit whether cheap or not.

Also, I take care of the waiters, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't have to justify yourself to him by quoting your tip amounts.

behemoth, dealers should make no more than $35k/year, which means they should make about $8 per down in tips. When they get a 50 cent tip, they shouldn't look at you like you're trash. They should accept the donation gracefully and get the [censored] back to work. If they got 50 cents every hand, they'd make that $35k/year.

[Jeffage]

Lol, I know this guy. What's he put in, 100 hour weeks?

Jeff

[Jeffage]

[ QUOTE ]
behemoth, dealers should make no more than $35k/year, which means they should make about $8 per down in tips. When they get a 50 cent tip, they shouldn't look at you like you're trash. They should accept the donation gracefully and get the [censored] back to work. If they got 50 cents every hand, they'd make that $35k/year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Who designated you the salary captain? I tip $1 for any decent pot, two one in awhile. But I was in a 40-80 game where a maniac up $10,000 was tipping dealers 30 and 40 a pot. And I was happy for them (the good ones) because my attitude is this...if they don't hurt my action, I'm surely not going to hurt theirs.

Jeff

[stabn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
no they want a buck every time...they expect top make $50+ an hour. That unreasonable for a job that a monkey can do.
They don't even shuffle any more. I suggest tipping $.50 every other hand..,if you don't like it get another job!

[/ QUOTE ]

Cough up a buck you cheap bastard.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is tipping what he believes is a fair amount for this occupation. It doesn't make him a "cheap bastard". Why do people confuse tipping .50/hand with being cheap?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it is cheap. That's fine if you want to tip that much. I'm going to tip more and i'm not going to say anything to you for being cheap. Just know that you are in fact cheap.

[stabn]

[ QUOTE ]
Recently a guy in our room who is a total and absolute stiff(I mean 100% stiff) was in a $20-40 Omaha/8 or better game when I was dealing. On the river he turns over his hand and says something like "I got the same straight. Chop it up". But I notice he is thinking they both have the same low straight, when he doesnt notice he also has a higher straight for all of the high end of the pot.

I had an easy shot at "getting even with him as nobody at the table was paying attn. However, keeping with the integrity of the game, I forced myself to give him 3/4's of the pot, not 1/2. AS MUCH AS IT HURT TO DO SO!!

I still got the big airball from him. And boy did I want to say something.

Thats alright tho. If I am in his game, I just toke off whatever chips he put into any pot I am involved with him and win.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's easy to see why Randy always says you are one of the best dealers he knows.

[Homer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
behemoth, dealers should make no more than $35k/year, which means they should make about $8 per down in tips. When they get a 50 cent tip, they shouldn't look at you like you're trash. They should accept the donation gracefully and get the [censored] back to work. If they got 50 cents every hand, they'd make that $35k/year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Who designated you the salary captain? I tip $1 for any decent pot, two one in awhile. But I was in a 40-80 game where a maniac up $10,000 was tipping dealers 30 and 40 a pot. And I was happy for them (the good ones) because my attitude is this...if they don't hurt my action, I'm surely not going to hurt theirs.

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

Do I really need to explicitly state in every post that I am stating my opinion?

Obviously, others are going to feel differently.

[Homer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
no they want a buck every time...they expect top make $50+ an hour. That unreasonable for a job that a monkey can do.
They don't even shuffle any more. I suggest tipping $.50 every other hand..,if you don't like it get another job!

[/ QUOTE ]

Cough up a buck you cheap bastard.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is tipping what he believes is a fair amount for this occupation. It doesn't make him a "cheap bastard". Why do people confuse tipping .50/hand with being cheap?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it is cheap. That's fine if you want to tip that much. I'm going to tip more and i'm not going to say anything to you for being cheap. Just know that you are in fact cheap.

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically, your definition of cheap is -- "a person who tips less than what I believe is fair" -- which is flawed.

I believe that a dealer deserves to make $x/yr. Therefore, I tip in a manner such that if I were to take up every seat at the table, every day of the year, the dealer would make that $x. There is nothing "cheap" about coming to a determination of how much someone deserves to earn and basing your tips on that.

Being cheap is believing that someone deserves a certain amount, but leaving less because you want to keep that money for yourself.

In other words:

Person A -- Believes a $100 tip is appropriate, but leaves $50. Cheap.

Person B -- Believes a $10 tip is appropriate, and leaves $10. Not cheap.

[Homer]

[ QUOTE ]
Just know that you are in fact cheap.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, I missed this part the first time around. I don't know what I'm supposed to do with this. Abandon my own assessment of what is a fair tip and give more because I'm cheap, I guess.

[Jorge10]

I dont go to casinos at all anymore because of online poker, but when I used to go, I used to ask the dealer how much I should tip. No one ever told me anything.

Also when I would win a pot of like 40 bucks at 3/6 high low, I would tip about 5 bucks out of it. I would rarely tip on small pots, maybe if it was past 20 I would tip 1 or 2 bucks.

Thats just how I would tip, but then again I am still new when it comes to playing at casinos. I also dont know if thats too much or to little, the dealers never answered when I asked how much I should tip.

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont go to casinos at all anymore because of online poker, but when I used to go, I used to ask the dealer how much I should tip. No one ever told me anything.

Also when I would win a pot of like 40 bucks at 3/6 high low, I would tip about 5 bucks out of it. I would rarely tip on small pots, maybe if it was past 20 I would tip 1 or 2 bucks.

Thats just how I would tip, but then again I am still new when it comes to playing at casinos. I also dont know if thats too much or to little, the dealers never answered when I asked how much I should tip.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should tip the amount you are comfortable tipping.

[jokerthief]

[ QUOTE ]
He's correct bro. 100% truth in his post. You may not believe it, but that's the way it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is reprehensible. I'll take your word for it.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
You should tip the amount you are comfortable tipping.

[/ QUOTE ]

But if his comfort zone is tipping what is typical or customary (to avoid being a stiff OR being ostentatious) he probably should ask a few players rather than dealers. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

~ Rick

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I won a pot the other day I probably shouldn't have because the player in the one seat didn't tip, and didn't protect his hand with a chip.
whoops.
I didn't tip that hand,it felt a little wierd. but tipped more the next hand I won and at the end of the down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw an accident like that once. Player in the one seat is bitching at the dealer in a tournament. A couple hands later the player gets all-in and the dealer accidently grabs his cards out of his hands and mucks them.

[/ QUOTE ]

SAWEEET BABY!! I dont have the balls to do that tho.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have "accidentally" mucked a stiff's cards that werent protected. Once a stiff and a good tipper were heads up in 20-40 game. Big pot. Good tipper bets, stiff calls, but good tipper thinks the stiff folded and throws his cards in. Guess what? Good tipper got his hand back and won, stiff went nuts, stiff got thrown out, I couldnt stop laughing. Once a stiff raised with the nuts, a good tipper reraised, stiff doesnt realize reraise and just turns hand up. I killed his hand and nothing he could do since he threw his cards in without calling. This is all very amusing but could be avoided by just giving up that buck. These cats would have to stiff me a very long time to get even for those pots they lost. If there is a decision to made, the floor will almost always go against the stiff. It doesnt matter if its right or wrong because "the floorpersons decision is final". You might just want to ask yourself "Is it worth me not tipping?"

[/ QUOTE ]


this is why I stick to online poker...seriously, I'm a good guy and a former waiter, so I'll treat dealers well, but it does suck to have to pay that extra expense(not to mention gas/hotel room/etc.)

[Jorge10]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You should tip the amount you are comfortable tipping.

[/ QUOTE ]

But if his comfort zone is tipping what is typical or customary (to avoid being a stiff OR being ostentatious) he probably should ask a few players rather than dealers. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

~ Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats pretty much what went through my mind, I was thinking, I dont want to look like a douche bag if I dont at least match the average tip. No one ever told me anything though, just sometimes one or two players would be like you have to tip after I won a big pot. When I asked dealers most gave me a look of wtf, like I was talking in martian or something.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You should tip the amount you are comfortable tipping.

[/ QUOTE ]

But if his comfort zone is tipping what is typical or customary (to avoid being a stiff OR being ostentatious) he probably should ask a few players rather than dealers. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

~ Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats pretty much what went through my mind, I was thinking, I dont want to look like a douche bag if I dont at least match the average tip. No one ever told me anything though, just sometimes one or two players would be like you have to tip after I won a big pot. When I asked dealers most gave me a look of wtf, like I was talking in martian or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

A dealer will never tell a new casino player what is the standard tip. They hope you will tip based on a percentage of the pot, because you are accustomed to tipping percentages in other areas.

[Don Olney]

This tipping post stuff is getting SO DAMN OLD---
A tip is given for extra service, not just for DEALING THE DANG CARDS MAN...
I tip most dealers because they keep the game runnning and do not let it bog down. I also tip dealers who get the cards out fast---
I do not tip dealers who want to sit and tell the table HOW GOOD THEY ARE AS A PLAYER or how they lost to a hand the other day for a bad beat story----
Best way to get tips-- SHUT UP AND DEAL---
In the bigger game--well SO WHAT---you picked this as a job DEAL WITH IT---

[Quicksilvre]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I saw farha spit in a dealers face. I saw it. I would of killed him if he did it to me

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure I would have killed him if I was playing at the table at the time, or saw it from across the room.

[/ QUOTE ]

See now, if that were me I would probably KICK EVERYONE IN THE NUTS AND KICK THE DEALER IN THE NUTS AND THE FLOOR KICK HIM IN THE NUTS CALL THE WAITRESS OVER AND KICK HER IN THE NUTS AND KICK ALL THE PLAYERS IN THE NUTS AND KICK THE GUY WITH ONE CARD WHERE? IN THE NUTS AND THEN HAVE THEIR NUTS KICK EACHOTHERS NUTS RIGHT NUT KICK LEFT NUT AND VICE VERSA UNTIL EVERYONE NUTS HAVE BEEN KICKED AND THEN KICK NUTS KICK NUTS NUTKICKING KICK NUTS BUY A BAG OF CORN NUTS AND KICK THAT AND THEN FIND A GUY WITH THE LAST NAME GNUTTS (SILENT G) AND KICK HIM PREFERABBLY IN THE NUTS AND FINALLY KICK MYSELF RIGHT IN THE NUTS

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You should tip the amount you are comfortable tipping.

[/ QUOTE ]

But if his comfort zone is tipping what is typical or customary (to avoid being a stiff OR being ostentatious) he probably should ask a few players rather than dealers. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

~ Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats pretty much what went through my mind, I was thinking, I dont want to look like a douche bag if I dont at least match the average tip. No one ever told me anything though, just sometimes one or two players would be like you have to tip after I won a big pot. When I asked dealers most gave me a look of wtf, like I was talking in martian or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

A dealer will never tell a new casino player what is the standard tip. They hope you will tip based on a percentage of the pot, because you are accustomed to tipping percentages in other areas.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also telling a player how much to tip can be viewed as soliciting a toke.

[IronUnkind]

And you might want to ask yourself, "is it worth me getting assaulted in the parking lot?"

[bigfishead]

[ QUOTE ]

behemoth, dealers should make no more than $35k/year, which means they should make about $8 per down in tips. When they get a 50 cent tip, they shouldn't look at you like you're trash. They should accept the donation gracefully and get the [censored] back to work. If they got 50 cents every hand, they'd make that $35k/year.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you want me to protect your game for $35k per year? Lets assume just for shiits &amp; giggles your game is only $30-60 Holdem. With only an avg of 8 bets ber pot which is small. At 12 downs per 8 hr shift, at 40 hands per hour(which is under my norm in this game), times 22 work days per month, you want me to protect the integrity of the game and this measly some of $30,412,800 bucks for $35k?

How many dumb shiits actually believe this load of crap here? If dealers could only make your number you would easily lose your entire bankroll because the only dealers that would work would be the thieves. Well ok I'm sure there would be some mullets that would drive you freaking insane with thier ineptitude and you would have to walk away from the table to TRY to avoid tilting off your last rack. But for the most part your just begging to LOSE the integrity of the game.

I'll tell you this, No way in hell I'd do it for $35k. I dont know of ANY good dealers that would.

Another thing, whilst many of you seem to believe all dealers are just a bunch of lazy asses looking for handouts, allow me to introduce you to some friends that deal.

There's Phil, he's an attorney. He gave up a multimillion dollar practice working for casinos helping them establish gaming regs and such as were req'd by state and local authorities. Wouldnt even listen to an offer of a new contract. He had barely recovered from a cancer that was supposed to kill him and decided he was done "working" in his profession.

Then theres this guy named Joe. Joe had a million dollar business he built from the ground up. Started with absolutely zero. Accomplished some dreams which included breaking some world records on the drag strips of America &amp; Canada. Adopted (along with his wife) a young son from another country. This young son became Joe's "hero". Got "kicked in the nuts" by the wife with divorce. She dissapeared with the kid, he lost his business, and everything he owned when she stripped the bank accounts. Joe was totally devastated, and he's a damn fine dealer today.

Point is, many of these people have alot more going for them than most poker players ever will. And to try to "class them", as it were as lower than the norm is just ludicris. Many have far more education and worldly experience than most of us could ever wish for.

[Homer]

How many dumb shiits actually believe this load of crap here?

The fact that you can't give your side of an argument without resorting to name calling shows that you have no class.

[Homer]

Point is, many of these people have alot more going for them than most poker players ever will.

No one said they didn't. No one said they did.

And to try to "class them", as it were as lower than the norm is just ludicris.

$35,000 is well above the median income.

Many have far more education and worldly experience than most of us could ever wish for.

You gave two examples. There are always exceptions to the rule.

[Homer]

So you want me to protect your game for $35k per year?

Yes.

Lets assume just for shiits &amp; giggles your game is only $30-60 Holdem. With only an avg of 8 bets ber pot which is small. At 12 downs per 8 hr shift, at 40 hands per hour(which is under my norm in this game), times 22 work days per month, you want me to protect the integrity of the game and this measly some of $30,412,800 bucks for $35k?

Yes. I find it hard to believe that there are very many dealers out there who could make more than $35k/yr in another field, right off the bat.

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
So you want me to protect your game for $35k per year?

Yes.

Lets assume just for shiits &amp; giggles your game is only $30-60 Holdem. With only an avg of 8 bets ber pot which is small. At 12 downs per 8 hr shift, at 40 hands per hour(which is under my norm in this game), times 22 work days per month, you want me to protect the integrity of the game and this measly some of $30,412,800 bucks for $35k?

Yes. I find it hard to believe that there are very many dealers out there who could make more than $35k/yr in another field, right off the bat.

[/ QUOTE ]

You would be very suprised. Compensation for dealers has gotten low enough that some of the good ones are laready leaving the business, and at a time when there aren't enough poker dealers to go around. There are dealers taht would work for 35k a year, but these arent' the best dealers. The very best dealers have options other than dealing. If you play small limits or recreationally where having a good delaer is unimportant to you the $35k a year works out fine. Also if you play in a casino that curretnly employs bad dealers (that is everyone esat of the Rockies and some casinos west of the Rockies) the $35k a year is fine; the food delaers that deal in places wehre there are mostly bad dealers migrate west. As with any other profession you get waht you pay for, if poker delaersmake $35k you will attreact peopel that couldn't do better than that in other jobs, if poker delaers make $70k you attract a lot more talented dealers.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

behemoth, dealers should make no more than $35k/year, which means they should make about $8 per down in tips. When they get a 50 cent tip, they shouldn't look at you like you're trash. They should accept the donation gracefully and get the [censored] back to work. If they got 50 cents every hand, they'd make that $35k/year.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you want me to protect your game for $35k per year? Lets assume just for shiits &amp; giggles your game is only $30-60 Holdem. With only an avg of 8 bets ber pot which is small. At 12 downs per 8 hr shift, at 40 hands per hour(which is under my norm in this game), times 22 work days per month, you want me to protect the integrity of the game and this measly some of $30,412,800 bucks for $35k?

How many dumb shiits actually believe this load of crap here? If dealers could only make your number you would easily lose your entire bankroll because the only dealers that would work would be the thieves. Well ok I'm sure there would be some mullets that would drive you freaking insane with thier ineptitude and you would have to walk away from the table to TRY to avoid tilting off your last rack. But for the most part your just begging to LOSE the integrity of the game.

I'll tell you this, No way in hell I'd do it for $35k. I dont know of ANY good dealers that would.

Another thing, whilst many of you seem to believe all dealers are just a bunch of lazy asses looking for handouts, allow me to introduce you to some friends that deal.

There's Phil, he's an attorney. He gave up a multimillion dollar practice working for casinos helping them establish gaming regs and such as were req'd by state and local authorities. Wouldnt even listen to an offer of a new contract. He had barely recovered from a cancer that was supposed to kill him and decided he was done "working" in his profession.

Then theres this guy named Joe. Joe had a million dollar business he built from the ground up. Started with absolutely zero. Accomplished some dreams which included breaking some world records on the drag strips of America &amp; Canada. Adopted (along with his wife) a young son from another country. This young son became Joe's "hero". Got "kicked in the nuts" by the wife with divorce. She dissapeared with the kid, he lost his business, and everything he owned when she stripped the bank accounts. Joe was totally devastated, and he's a damn fine dealer today.

Point is, many of these people have alot more going for them than most poker players ever will. And to try to "class them", as it were as lower than the norm is just ludicris. Many have far more education and worldly experience than most of us could ever wish for.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, some disclaimers:

Everyone should be able to make a decent living.
Good dealers help the game, but entitlement doesn't help anything.
Good dealers, if they are protecting the integrity of the game, are successful - some players will take care of them, and some players will not.

35K is more than I make. I teach in the public school system. I am not complaining about my salary because I chose my profession. However, consider this:

Not only do I have to teach students who are unwilling to learn:

I play cop (breaking up fights, stopping arguments before they get to fighting, checking those students who might be high before they walk in the classroom, making sure they don't cheat, try to uncover lies as they explain why they ditch class).
I play counselor (we had one suicide, one kid has been kicked out of the home, many are not achieving up to potential and if they don't start working, they will fail that high stakes test to help them graduate, so I have to influence their current decisions of doing nothing).
I play parent.
I play babysitter (some of my seniors have essentially given up and are just sitting there - if they don't cause problems for anyone else...well..they just sit, some high school students are just immature)

All of this for LESS than 35K. Should I apply to be a dealer? It's a step up for me.

Believe it or not, I ACTUALLY agree with you - putting our careers, poker or otherwise in class system should not happen. However, if I can make 35K or more being a dealer, maybe I should learn. I think I have the necessary educational and life experience requirements.

FWIW

[bigfishead]

[ QUOTE ]
Point is, many of these people have alot more going for them than most poker players ever will.

No one said they didn't. No one said they did.

[/ QUOTE ]

Need I point out all the "monkeys" statements? Just 1 example.

[ QUOTE ]
And to try to "class them", as it were as lower than the norm is just ludicris.

$35,000 is well above the median income.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your use of income as classing the dealers perfectly points out your ignorance. My reference was clearly to point out the way so many of you class dealers as "less than". Just because a person is a dealer does not make him/her a "lower class person" than you. Your obvious lack of respect for dealers is in fact the same ignorance that is a major part of defining poker players as "class less souls".

[ QUOTE ]
Many have far more education and worldly experience than most of us could ever wish for.

You gave two examples. There are always exceptions to the rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes Homer, there are many more than you think. The point is to not judge people nor their profession when you have no knowledge of them whatsoever. And then you want to be the one to define what they are worth?

[bigfishead]

[ QUOTE ]
First, some disclaimers:


35K is more than I make. I teach in the public school system. I am not complaining about my salary because I chose my profession. However, consider this:

Not only do I have to teach students who are unwilling to learn:

I play cop (breaking up fights, stopping arguments before they get to fighting, checking those students who might be high before they walk in the classroom, making sure they don't cheat, try to uncover lies as they explain why they ditch class).
I play counselor (we had one suicide, one kid has been kicked out of the home, many are not achieving up to potential and if they don't start working, they will fail that high stakes test to help them graduate, so I have to influence their current decisions of doing nothing).
I play parent.
I play babysitter (some of my seniors have essentially given up and are just sitting there - if they don't cause problems for anyone else...well..they just sit, some high school students are just immature)

All of this for LESS than 35K. Should I apply to be a dealer? It's a step up for me.

Believe it or not, I ACTUALLY agree with you - putting our careers, poker or otherwise in class system should not happen. However, if I can make 35K or more being a dealer, maybe I should learn. I think I have the necessary educational and life experience requirements.

FWIW

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And I am one to be sure that thinks you are getting totally fuucked. I have no experience being a teacher. But I have memories of what kinds of pain in the asses we students were 30+ years ago. And I know it's worse today. I have always spoken out when asked on this subject and totally agree with probably 95% of the public out there that feel teachers arent getting even 1/2 their value. However having my support doesnt buy you a home.

Whether you should become a dealer or not is up to you. Personally I hate to see teachers leave. But maybe if more &amp; more did then public outcry would force school districts to step up to the plate for your services.

[Homer]

And then you want to be the one to define what they are worth?

Exactly. It is a tipping industry. It is up to me to determine the value of a dealer. Unfortunate, but true. I'd just as soon do away with tipping altogether and have the casino set the dealer's wage. But that isn't up to me, so I have to use my best judgement on what to tip. I've set a dealer's value at 35K/yr, and tip accordingly. As I mentioned, 35K is above the median salary, so I'm not sure why you think I am devaluing the profession.

[Rick Nebiolo]

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I'd just as soon do away with tipping altogether and have the casino set the dealer's wage.

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Tipping a dealer when winning a decent pot is such a natural part of the gambling experience that it will always be the primary source of dealer income. Floormen can legitimately become salary only (it's already done this way at at least some Indian Casinos) since there can be an appearance of impropriety given the floor has to make decisions.

~ Rick

[bigfishead]

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As with any other profession you get waht you pay for, if poker delaersmake $35k you will attreact peopel that couldn't do better than that in other jobs, if poker delaers make $70k you attract a lot more talented dealers.

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This line from Randy is paramount. Especially for floorpeople I also believe this line is key to the overall successfulness of any employer over the long haul. Any employer need to ask themselves "how can we attract the best talent to be successsful".

[Justin A]

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Oh yeah, and as far as waiting tables goes, for every table, I pay a percentage to bartenders, hosts, and busboys. So when you dont tip, you actually cost me money.

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If there were no tip system at all, you would not have to share it, since there would be nothing to share. And you can't be a smart person, if you pay the others by percentage, and less people tip, you will pay the others less, and it will not "cost" you anything.

If you do not get paid enough at your job it is not the customers problem. It is yours.

I said it before, tipping is bullsh*t!

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This is the second retarded post you've made. If the tipping system were not in effect, then we'd just end up paying more for all of these services. It's simple economics.