AKs, wasn't sure how to play this [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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RustyCJ

10-22-2005, 01:32 PM

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, 3 folds, MP3 calls, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (18 SB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (11.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, Hero folds, BB calls, UTG folds, MP3 folds.

River: (13.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has 5d Ac (one pair, fours).
CO has Td As (one pair, fours).
Outcome: CO wins 13.50 BB.

MrWookie47

10-22-2005, 01:44 PM

Nice hand. Don't post results. DO make a note on this guy.

10-22-2005, 01:45 PM

Anybody raise the flop here?

Fantam

10-22-2005, 02:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Anybody raise the flop here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldnt have raised the flop. I would have expected CO to usually have a pocket pair, when he bets this flop after calling your preflop 3-bet.

Raising the flop, would have become expensive if CO had 3-bet. Whereas you have sufficient odds to call to see if you make top pair, and your call closes the action.

I think that I also would have called the turn, with 12.5 bb in the pot.

Mathieu

10-22-2005, 02:16 PM

I might be biased because I saw the rest of the hand, but I would be tempted to raise the flop. At this limit, it is not so unusual for people to donk bet unimproved overs right into the pre-flop raiser, especially when the board is ragged or paired.

I think there is a reasonable chance we still have the best hand, and given the huge pot (18 sb) I want to increase my winning chances. On this board, even loose players may fold unimproved overs for two bets cold.

Stealthy

10-22-2005, 02:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Anybody raise the flop here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually raise the flop here and try and check it through from there. If he 3 bets I peel/fold and give it up again if he bets the turn. If he then bets the river I again have to give it up if I have a caller behind me but call if my raise pushed the caller out.

MrWookie47

10-22-2005, 02:17 PM

It's a big pot, just on the border of what we need to call. However, we might be dead to a slowplayed 4. We're not closing the action, so there's a reasonable chance of a raise behind us that would be most unfortunate. Closing the action I'd call getting 12.5:1.

nomadtla

10-22-2005, 02:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anybody raise the flop here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually raise the flop here and try and check it through from there. If he 3 bets I peel/fold and give it up again if he bets the turn. If he then bets the river I again have to give it up if I have a caller behind me but call if my raise pushed the caller out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given the results one could say that yes they might (might) raise this flop against this opponent in this exact situation with a read. If you generally do this you will lose to much IMO. Raising with just Overcards is almost never outright correct. But that was disscussed by some much better posters than me in Nate tha' Great's - Overcard Challenge (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=&Number=2737416&page=&view =&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) A must for a good favorite thread list.

10-22-2005, 02:44 PM

Since villain just called your 3-bet, you can usually figure him for not holding the big pair. If you raise this flop, you can protect your overcards, and probably go HU with villain. This would probably change the action on the turn. I'm totally grunching here. Maybe it's not possible with the family pot.

nomadtla

10-22-2005, 02:54 PM

Given the size of this pot I acctually think a call on the flop and raise on the turn might do more for you if you truly have a read that makes you feel you are ahead of CO. Against unknowns I think the turn fold was good.

Aaron W.

10-22-2005, 03:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, 3 folds, MP3 calls, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (18 SB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (11.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, Hero folds

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on the pot size, I call. I'll think really hard about a check-raise from one of the other playeres if it happens, but I'm happy to see the river getting 12.5:1 and almost surely 6 outs if I need them. CO looks like he's betting a non-premium pocket pair.

Fryguy

10-22-2005, 03:44 PM

You can't fold this hand on the turn. You're getting good odds to make your draw. Call the turn and re-evaluate on the river.

gopnik

10-22-2005, 04:41 PM

if CO is aggressive, I'd pop him on the flop.
I am not folding the turn here. If I hit my A or K I'll make at least 1 or 2 BBs on the river so, with implied odd the call on the turn is OK. Plus, I don't think you are reverse dominated here.