What hand(s) would you put me on here?

[mc1023]

Wanted to try something different with this hand and see what hands you guys would put me on here before I post my hand and get comments on my play.


So Assume...

- You the villain in the BB and you're a tad loose and like to defend your BB (22-12 ish).

- UTG+1 is a fishy 65/20ish.

- You've played with MP1 roughly 500-1k hands and see him as a solid 18/12 typish that doesn't get out of line too often but is a thinking player that is capable of making the occasional bluff/move.

- He is also currently sitting with you at two other tables and you notice on this particular table he is raising a bit more than usual due to acting like after the fishie in UTG+1.


What's your read on MP1's hand here?


Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with ?, ?.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (7.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

River: (9.25 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB

*I dont play this high*

I think you have 88,99,AA,KK,AK,KQ,KJ,K10,K9s,QJs,A9s maybe J10s.

[DcifrThs]

AhQh

[RobbyD]

I think you have 76h or JTh

A flush, a boat, or KQ

9-9 or 8-8

[flawless_victory]

i dont understand? you had a bluff and he called? WTF?

ill go ahead and state the obvious, AA/KK/AK.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
i dont understand? you had a bluff and he called? WTF?

ill go ahead and state the obvious, AA/KK/AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

imo he posted this b/c he had a hand like AhQh or JThh or 76hh as somebody else mentioned or a stone cold dyed in the wool bluff (correct usage of dyed in the wool?)

Barron

[mc1023]

I was MP1 and there was no showdown for this hand, villain folded on the river.

Just curious to see what hands are most likely in everyone's mind before I post my actual hand.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
I was MP1 and there was no showdown for this hand, villain folded on the river.

Just curious to see what hands are most likely in everyone's mind before I post my actual hand.

[/ QUOTE ]i think it wouldve been better if youd posted from BB's perspective, and claimed to have the QhJh... then you see if ppl like the fold. would have been much more interesting...
your post was too vague... generally, hand posts where we dont know anybodys hand are boring and annoy me.

[mc1023]

ahhh that would've been much better...

too bad that thought didn't come to mind before I posted..

but hard to imagine that he had QJh and not pay off the river, as a matter of fact I'm not really sure what the hell he had.

that donk on the river made no sense.


anyhow next decently interesting hand I come across I'll try that approach /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[MNpoker]

Well you capped preflop:

JJ, QQ, KK, AA, AK

Then raised the river.

Guess I'm going with the obvious as well
AA, KK, AK

[mj12]

aqh, 99 and since you may have been trying to isolate the fish ill thro kq and maybe even a crazy suited heart connector in there like qj 910

[mc1023]

I had J /images/graemlins/spade.gifT /images/graemlins/spade.gif

good bluff? spewing? just plain stupid?

or did I represent a big hand clear enough and the river raise make sense.

[roy_miami]

I would guess BB had AQ or AJ (at least thats what he was representing). If he did have AJ it is often advocated on these boards to play it like he did, check call, check call, bet and fold to a raise (minus the preflop 3-bet). If you are against someone you suspect to be a 2+2er it looks like a perfect spot to bluff raise the river to me.

NH

[DeeJ]

nice bluff, good place to try it.... it only needs to work a fraction (like 20%) of the time to be profitable.

If villain had a king or an ace it probably wouldna worked /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[jogger08152]

You're not spewing. Villain's river donk (coupled with flop and turn play) screams bluff. He had AK, AQ or KQ or a set and didn't raise the flop or turn with straight AND flush draws out against him? Zzzzz.

Raise with 32 or better, chuckle the 40% or so of the time that he folds, knowing he almost always had you beat, and sneer like Billy Idol when you drag the pot.

[Mackas]

[ QUOTE ]
I had J /images/graemlins/spade.gifT /images/graemlins/spade.gif

good bluff? spewing? just plain stupid?

or did I represent a big hand clear enough and the river raise make sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Overall the only hands that justify the way you played this from start to finish would have been AA, KK, AK though it was obvious from the start you had none of those or it wouldn't have been worth posting. JTs was vastly overplayed pre flop. The other streets were all fine and the rebluff on the river was good. Arguably obvious given his apparently odd bet which screamed bluffing a missed draw but it still takes balls to rebluff with nothing.

I don't think there is any real way you can justify the cap preflop though, unless they both fold the flop a lot or are generally very weak tight post flop, which isn't what you stated.

Don't lose sight however of the fact that you got lucky on the end - he obviously had squat, at best JT as well. In the circumstances the rebluff was good once he bet out given the odds you were getting on him folding but 9 times out of 10 he just check calls on the river with an ace, King or a flush (or even check raises the better of those).

You weren't spewing chips (at least not from the flop onwards) but I think its a bit delusional to pretend he folded anything real on the end because you represented a big enough hand earlier. This smacks of a retrospective attempt to justify bad play preflop. Accept it was a mistake even though you got away with it in the end. Don't kid yourself that the cap was good and played any part in his later fold. You were lucky he had nothing but a busted draw by the end and you made a good rebluff.

Good Luck

Mackas

[mc1023]

mmm..

The capp preflop was for deception purposes and to mix it up a bit since I'm in position with a good multiway hand.

but when both players gave up on the flop and turn I took the lead. Even if villain had checked the river and called the majority of the time, he only needs to fold 10% of the time to make this bluff ok.

I'm quite sure villain had a hand in the end when he donked the river, it looks like one of those bet if I'm gonna call type of hands but wasn't willing to raise.

[Mackas]

[ QUOTE ]
mmm..

The capp preflop was for deception purposes and to mix it up a bit since I'm in position with a good multiway hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're in position with a good multi way hand 3 handed .

[ QUOTE ]
but when both players gave up on the flop and turn I took the lead. Even if villain had checked the river and called the majority of the time, he only needs to fold 10% of the time to make this bluff ok.

[/ QUOTE ]

I tried to be clear I though everything was fine and well played after the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm quite sure villain had a hand in the end when he donked the river, it looks like one of those bet if I'm gonna call type of hands but wasn't willing to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

He'a worse player than you described then. I presume you meant to say that he would call a bet but not call a raise. If he has any sense and is dubious at this point he would be check calling then so we'll ahve to agree to disagree about what he ahd on the end then.

Finally as is so often the case in these posts you have now provided a perfect justification (in your eyes) to your play on every street, even prefaced with a sceptical mmm to someone (me) who disagreed with one single action in the entire hand (the cap preflop).

You are obviously sure that your play was correct in every detail so why bother post nevermind coyly pose the question "Did I spew chips?"?

We all revel in your ingenious play of the hand and no, your bum does not look big in that (was that what you were hoping for?). /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Vitriol aside, /images/graemlins/tongue.gif, at least you tried to make the post more interesting by posing it from a different point of view.


Good Luck

Mackas

[mc1023]

[ QUOTE ]
Finally as is so often the case in these posts you have now provided a perfect justification (in your eyes) to your play on every street, even prefaced with a sceptical mmm to someone (me) who disagreed with one single action in the entire hand (the cap preflop).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I played this particular hand bad at all, the capp preflop might've been a bit off but take into the fact my read that the villain notices I'm iso-raising the fish frequently which widens his 3betting range a bit so I figured I can push out a marginally strong hand like AQ or a medium pair on the flop or turn.

Against a thinking player don't you think a 3bet preflop and a capp preflop will give a player different reads on what range of hands I could have?

[ QUOTE ]
You are obviously sure that your play was correct in every detail so why bother post nevermind coyly pose the question "Did I spew chips?"?

We all revel in your ingenious play of the hand and no, your bum does not look big in that (was that what you were hoping for?).

Vitriol aside, , at least you tried to make the post more interesting by posing it from a different point of view.


[/ QUOTE ]

The reason I posted this hand was to see if my bluff was in line with exactly how I would've played a big hand and given BB's read of what type of player I am. It was not for the purposes of inflating my ego /images/graemlins/confused.gif

This is not a play I use often in my game but sometimes I take a very strong line with hands like JTs or 89s. Given the right circumstances a particular 3bet may seem overaggro and not a very strong made hand.

Results vary and I always wondered if plays like this are spewing or they have some merit to it since I have some fold equity and many outs not to mention the meta-game aspect.

but your right this is not a play that will work often, but really it only needs to work 15-20% of the time to be profitable, and I could see a hand like AQ or AJ not putting in two bets on the river so villain might've given me an opportunity to make a better hand fold as well.

but I still think the capp preflop sets my range of hands into a different category for BB who is a thinking player which could give this hand 5-10% more fold equity which is allll that I need.

Your opinion on the preflop play is very valid too though but keep in mind against a hand like AK/AQ + random hand, I have pretty good pot equity in a 3 handed pot before the flop.