Learning to fold overpairs - JJ

[obsidian]

No good reads on anyone. SB seemed a tad tight over a small sample. I think I needed to call and fold the turn unimproved.

Ultimate Bet 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG calls, SB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero folds

[partygirluk]

You have to call the flop 3 bet here. Re-evaluate on the turn. You can make a straight, top set, small chance you have best hand.

[ArturiusX]

This is disgusting.

AT will 3-bet this every time. But even if you're behind, you gotta call and see the turn. You have enough outs.

[Buck_65]

Getting 19:1 I really can't see why you'd fold the flop. You certainly have implied odds to peel and try to catch your 2 outer if you are behind, which you definitely may not be. Not to mention a backdoor straight that counts as at least .5 outs.

[blackize]

What are you so afraid of that 19-1 isn't good enough for you to call on the flop? You need 10-1 if you KNOW he has AA or a set.

[El Ishmael]

[ QUOTE ]
This is disgusting.

AT will 3-bet this every time. But even if you're behind, you gotta call and see the turn. You have enough outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't SB is 3-betting an UTG raise preflop and bet/3-betting this flop after being capped with AT.

But he's getting 19:1 so this seems pretty bad.

[El Ishmael]

[ QUOTE ]
What are you so afraid of that 19-1 isn't good enough for you to call on the flop? You need 10-1 if you KNOW he has AA or a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

More than that.

[obsidian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is disgusting.

AT will 3-bet this every time. But even if you're behind, you gotta call and see the turn. You have enough outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't SB is 3-betting an UTG raise preflop and bet/3-betting this flop after being capped with AT.

But he's getting 19:1 so this seems pretty bad.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, the 19:1 is the horrible part. But not as bad as people are making it out to be. AT never plays it this way. I say I am behind a set or bigger pair 90%+ of the time.

[obsidian]

[ QUOTE ]
This is disgusting.

AT will 3-bet this every time. But even if you're behind, you gotta call and see the turn. You have enough outs.

[/ QUOTE ]
No way unless he is super laggy. I capped from the BB after both an UTG and SB raise (arguably the 2 positions representing the strongest hands). Most players with AT call down my flop raise.

[partygirluk]

TText results appended to pokerstove.txt

519,225 games 0.235 secs 2,209,468 games/sec

Board: 3h 8c Td
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 62.3683 % 60.60% 01.77% { TT+ }
Hand 2: 11.7299 % 09.97% 01.76% { JdJh }
Hand 3: 25.9018 % 25.89% 00.01% { TT-88, AQs+, AKo }

[blackize]

I ran it in twodimes twice with the villain having exactly AA and exactly TT. We have 11% equity each time, getting 19-1 this is an autocall.

I remember a hand where I had KK capped preflop against a tight player, capped the flop and he bet into me on the turn I thought for a while and folded. Surely he knew that only Aces or Kings would cap preflop and the flop so if he bet into me he must have Aces. Another player was in the pot and when it got to a showdown he the tight player had QQ.

In this hand the pot is big you can make runner runner straight you can also hit another J, he may have AT.

See the turn if its an Ace and he bets into you then you can fold otherwise just see what happens.

[Lmn55d]

Those pokerstove odds are for going all the way to the river. You're not gonna have odds to call on the turn just for a set though so you can't go by that. Of course, if you have the best hand some percentage of the time it's different, but if you know he has AA/TT you can't call the flop getting 10:1, you need a lot more.

[blackize]

True. Obviously his hand range cant be exclusively these two hands. If that were his hand range the flop is still almost an autocall getting 19-1 with 5.5% equity on the turn, but we will be ahead some % of the time.

[flawless_victory]

i saw the title of this post (and in HUSH) and thought, yikes!

[Poldi]

I call down all the way unless an A hits.

[wonkadaddy]

yikes, might want to rethink your location obs.