This was a well played hand: finally. and fun as hell. [Archive]

View Full Version : This was a well played hand: finally. and fun as hell.

surfdoc

10-21-2005, 08:46 PM

This hand just happened. The cast of charcters:

BB is squeeky tight and aggro at 8/7/3.2 over 100 hands. MP is the targeted fish at 63/6/.8 over 200 hands. UTG is 21/9/1.5 over 173 hands and has done nothing even remotely interesting.

This may be standard for many of you but the river play was good I think.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, MP calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP bets, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls.

River: (10.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP bets, Hero calls, BB raises, UTG calls, MP calls, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, MP calls.

Final Pot: 21.50 BB

DeathDonkey

10-21-2005, 09:04 PM

Raise preflop.

-DeathDonkey

surfdoc

10-21-2005, 09:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew that one was coming.

NLSoldier

10-21-2005, 09:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

and the rest is standard /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

mike l.

10-21-2005, 09:42 PM

youre the button right? i think calling and seeing a flop here against two limpers 6 max game is a little better. 5 way action for one bet is slightly better than 3 way action for 2 bets with a middle pair. 99 would be a raise. 77 is not enough hand to protect.

Trix

10-21-2005, 09:44 PM

Preflop is fine.

The river is standard, but still pretty cool.

The flop I´m not so sure about. Flatcalling and letting in some of the people who may be drawing close to dead might be better. This seem a bit similar to one of the hands Ed Millers says to flatcall with a set.

Difference is that he is first to act though, but still right behind the better.

mike l.

10-21-2005, 09:46 PM

you should not raise that flop. it's about as good a flop as a set can find short of being rainbow. the reason you should call is you want mp to bet into you on the turn so you can then charge hands like flush and straight draws two bets. getting in a raise on the turn is how you get the most value out of your set here. raising shuts out donks who will happily call along for one bet with any junk pocket pair, any A with backdoor draw, not getting anywhere close to the right price. give them a chance to do that, dont raise them out.

surfdoc

10-21-2005, 09:51 PM

We just had a very lengthy discussion here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=3722180&page=&view=&s b=5&o=) regarding a medium pocket vs. one limper so I am sure this will spark some controversy as well.

The second limper here was so loose passive that I knew there was no chance of the flop going check, check, bet, fold, fold. Thats why I played it this way preflop and let the blinds come in so we could play a big pot.

surfdoc

10-21-2005, 10:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you should not raise that flop. it's about as good a flop as a set can find short of being rainbow. the reason you should call is you want mp to bet into you on the turn so you can then charge hands like flush and straight draws two bets. getting in a raise on the turn is how you get the most value out of your set here. raising shuts out donks who will happily call along for one bet with any junk pocket pair, any A with backdoor draw, not getting anywhere close to the right price. give them a chance to do that, dont raise them out.

[/ QUOTE ]

The flop action is close but the flop better was so random I really could not rely on him to bet the turn. I also wanted to define the hands behind me and I was certain uber tighty was folding anyway unless he had a flush draw. It would also be difficult to play the turn if we are still 4 handed and a heart does come down. Then are you still raising the turn?

FWIW, I often do just call this flop when the bet comes from a position that makes me shut down the field with a raise. I just decided to fastplay this one. I think running bad for a while influenced this somewhat as I am so tired of seeing some singleton heart pick up a draw on the turn and catch on the river. (I know this is not good thinking)

baronzeus

10-21-2005, 10:11 PM

this river rules

2+2 wannabe

10-21-2005, 10:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
this river rules

[/ QUOTE ]

Justin A

10-21-2005, 11:03 PM

I like the preflop limp.

Surfbullet

10-21-2005, 11:15 PM

I think i'm going to raise/4bet this river...your raise looks like a K, and most (all?) flushes will(should?) 3bet your raise, and noone who was helped by this card is folding. The call/3bet is cool, but I'm not sure if it's optimal, especially with BB's mega-aggro tendencies postflop and obvious flush draw.

I don't mind PF, especially b/c the UTG limper is tight(not great equity) and overlimper is loose(not much FE postflop). Build a pot for stuff like this.

Surf

mike l.

10-21-2005, 11:35 PM

"I really could not rely on him to bet the turn."

that's okay. those people play so bad, you still want them in. it improves your implied odds on the hand.

"It would also be difficult to play the turn if we are still 4 handed and a heart does come down. Then are you still raising the turn?"

yes definitely. i think that's the +EV play.

"I think running bad for a while influenced this somewhat as I am so tired of seeing some singleton heart pick up a draw on the turn and catch on the river. (I know this is not good thinking)"

ding ding ding. well said.

mike l.

10-21-2005, 11:36 PM

against one limper you raise 77, against two you call.

surfdoc

10-21-2005, 11:59 PM

Lets say I raised this pot and we still saw the flop 5 handed. Donk leads just like in the hand. Does this change how you play the flop and beyond?

surfdoc

10-22-2005, 06:32 PM

Here is the way the hand played out. I think that a raise and hope that I get 3 bet is a viable strategy but I think that with a pair on board I will only get raised by the nut flush and even then maybe not. Trapping the donks and putting them on an installment plan worked well because nobody wants to fold for just one more bet in a pot this big. Especially entertaining is MPs over/overcall to my call reraise with pocket 4s. I mean, clearly nobody has a king, a flush, or a pair bigger than his and letting Ace high take this pot down is more than he could stomach.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, MP calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP bets, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls.

River: (10.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP bets, Hero calls, BB raises, UTG calls, MP calls, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG calls $6.50 (All-In), MP calls.

Final Pot: 22.15 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has 6h 9h (flush, king high).
UTG has Kd Js (three of a kind, kings).
MP has 4c 4d (two pair, kings and fours).
Hero has 7s 7d (full house, sevens full of kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 22.15 BB.