View Full Version : i call to suck out
baronzeus
10-21-2005, 08:07 PM
4h4d in SB.
6 handed 25/50
REALLY LAGgy UTG limps, LAGgy button raises, I call in the SB, loose ass fish in BB folds, UTG raises, Button calls, I call
He'll only LRR here with AA or KK, or mayyyyybe AKs. He'd raise his trash first in.
Flop Kd9d7d
I check, UTG bets, Button folds, I call for my flush draw
Turn Jh
I check/call
River 4s,
I check, he bets, I raise, he 3bets, I call.
How much of this hand do you hate?
B Dids
10-21-2005, 08:11 PM
Given your approach to this hand, I feel like you really should have embraced the whole spirit, strapped on a crash helmet and raised preflop.
There's a lot to be said for putting them on a hand that you can't beat and calling /images/graemlins/smile.gif.
(this is what I typed before I realize that baron is too lame to use the /images/graemlins/diamond.gif thingy and that he had a flush draw. now his play isn't as bad but what I wrote amuses me so I'm leaving it).
stinkypete
10-21-2005, 08:18 PM
4/images/graemlins/heart.gif4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif in SB.
6 handed 25/50
REALLY LAGgy UTG limps, LAGgy button raises, I call in the SB, loose ass fish in BB folds, UTG raises, Button calls, I call
He'll only LRR here with AA or KK, or mayyyyybe AKs. He'd raise his trash first in.
Flop K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
I check, UTG bets, Button folds, I call for my flush draw
Turn J/images/graemlins/heart.gif
I check/call
River 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif,
I check, he bets, I raise, he 3bets, I call.
How much of this hand do you hate?
mperich
10-21-2005, 08:25 PM
i cant see playing this hand any other way on any street. I might bet->3bet the river tho, altho I hate getting capped so I dont know.
-Mike
oreogod
10-21-2005, 08:28 PM
this hands pwns. And is well played.
We just had a discussion about preflop and whether calling is right if u know someone will LRR here. Id post it or summarize but I dont want to summarize and dont know if anybody would read the chat we had (kind of long).
what is "pwns"? still learning some acronyms.
oreogod
10-21-2005, 08:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
what is "pwns"? still learning some acronyms.
[/ QUOTE ]
kinda close to "owns" but a much more in your face version. It comes from the Warcraft game era (actually mentions this below):
From Urban dictionary:
PWN (verb)
1. An act of dominating an opponent.
2. Great, ingenious; applied to methods and objects.
Originally dates back to the days of WarCraft, when a map designer mispelled "Own" as "Pwn". What was originally supose to be "player has been owned." was "player has been pwned".
Pwn eventually grew from there and is now used throughout the online world, especially in online games.
1. "I pwn these guys on battlenet"
2. "This strategy pwns!" or "This game pwn."
LINK -- for more variations (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pwn)
partygirluk
10-21-2005, 08:42 PM
Fold preflop, I don't think it is close.
joker122
10-21-2005, 08:57 PM
with a loose BB it's kind of close actually.
partygirluk
10-21-2005, 08:59 PM
I disagree because you are getting LRRed a bunch here.
oreogod
10-21-2005, 09:06 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I disagree because you are getting LRRed a bunch here.
[/ QUOTE ]
this was all part of the chat we had...u know [censored] it Im going to paste some of it, because its decent.
[17:15] <baronzeus> wasnt sure if i should fold to the 3bet
[17:15] <baronzeus> or fold preflop even
[17:15] <baronzeus> that guy limped super infrequently
[17:15] <baronzeus> could practically smell the LRR
[17:16] <oreogod> yeah him limping intially would throw me off with your read
[17:16] <stnkypete> you're putting in 160 or 135 to 35 preflop
[17:16] <stnkypete> you're getting 160 or 135 to 35 preflop
[17:17] <stnkypete> im not sure if thats enough
[17:17] <stnkypete> if you suspect he might be limp reraising
[17:17] <oreogod> its not if u know hes going to LRR
[17:17] <baronzeus> hmmmm
[17:17] <oreogod> well if they are laggy
[17:17] <baronzeus> hmmmmmmmmmmmm
[17:17] <baronzeus> i cant believe the BB folded
[17:17] <baronzeus> his name was "STINKYPETES"
[17:17] <baronzeus> he never folds
[17:19] <oreogod> if u take your set odds at face value and u win everytime, u have to make up 24sbs total (if u know hes going to LRR)...so 10sbs in preflop, u have to make up 14sbs, or 7bbs postflop
[17:19] <baronzeus> 7BBs?
[17:19] <baronzeus> hmmmmmmmm
[17:19] <baronzeus> no way i can make up 7BBs
[17:19] <baronzeus> if he doesnt LRR
[17:19] <baronzeus> though
[17:19] <baronzeus> im not sure
[17:20] <oreogod> if u adjust for not winning everytime u have to make up 30sbs (from 24) so that makes 10bbs postflop
[17:20] <baronzeus> i think 30SBs is too much
[17:20] <baronzeus> oohhhh
[17:20] <oreogod> going from 8:1 set odds to 10:1 to account for time u hit and lose
[17:20] <baronzeus> wait you arent considerng that ive already put in
[17:20] <baronzeus> $15
[17:21] <oreogod> so a LRR means u are putting an additional how much?
[17:21] <oreogod> 60?
[17:21] <baronzeus> 25
[17:21] <baronzeus> ohh
[17:21] <baronzeus> ya
[17:21] <baronzeus> 60
[17:21] <baronzeus> and the pot will either be
[17:21] <baronzeus> 300
[17:21] <baronzeus> or 250
[17:21] <baronzeus> err
[17:21] <baronzeus> ya
[17:21] <baronzeus> thats total, including me
[17:21] <oreogod> 250
[17:22] <baronzeus> depends on if BB calls
[17:22] <oreogod> 26.6bbs
[17:22] <oreogod> if he LRR and bb doesnt call
[17:22] <oreogod> sbs
[17:22] <oreogod> not bbs
[17:23] <oreogod> 10 in preflop
[17:23] <oreogod> means 8bbs post
[17:23] <oreogod> u have to make up
[17:23] <baronzeus> ehh 8BBs is tough
[17:23] <oreogod> or 7
[17:23] <baronzeus> if BB calls
[17:23] <baronzeus> then i have to make up less
[17:23] <oreogod> ish
[17:23] <baronzeus> and if he doesnt lrr then its still close
[17:23] <oreogod> if bb calls u have to make a little over 5 post
[17:23] <oreogod> bbs
[17:23] <baronzeus> 5 is EZ
[17:23] <oreogod> not hard
[17:23] <baronzeus> 8 is about the limit i think
[17:23] <oreogod> but depends on if BB calls a lot
[17:24] <oreogod> u should post this chat...or summarize it, ppl are going to mention preflop
[17:24] <oreogod> probably
[17:24] <oreogod> and some dont use numbers to think it through
oreogod
10-21-2005, 09:07 PM
[ QUOTE ]
with a loose BB it's kind of close actually.
[/ QUOTE ]
that was the agreement we came to
partygirluk
10-21-2005, 09:08 PM
Bear in mind that if he does LRR and has AA/KK, which is a likely scenario, you will lose 1/6 times you flop a set.
oreogod
10-21-2005, 09:25 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Bear in mind that if he does LRR and has AA/KK, which is a likely scenario, you will lose 1/6 times you flop a set.
[/ QUOTE ]
the read was AA/KK/AK...if u read what I posted the loss u sometimes take was accounted for by going from 8:1 and moving the odds u need to be 10:1.
IF BB is coming along, then its close. If hes not and u know UTG will LRR then its not close and u should fold as u cant make up what u need postflop even with laggs.
NLSoldier
10-21-2005, 09:33 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I disagree because you are getting LRRed a bunch here.
[/ QUOTE ]
huh?
[ QUOTE ]
He'll only LRR here with AA or KK, or mayyyyybe AKs. He'd raise his trash first in.
[/ QUOTE ]
Does this mean that he will often limp without limp-reraising ?
baronzeus
10-21-2005, 09:50 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He'll only LRR here with AA or KK, or mayyyyybe AKs. He'd raise his trash first in.
[/ QUOTE ]
Does this mean that he will often limp without limp-reraising ?
[/ QUOTE ]
i only saw him open limp 5 times before this. 3 times it didnt get LRRed, two other times it was AA and KK respectively.
joker122
10-21-2005, 10:11 PM
post flop can be decided easily with some math. i'm going out now...anyone want to do it? if not i'll do it tomorrow morning.
edit - after some math i calculated we have an average of 29% equity, so the flop and turn are easy calls. i thought it was going to be closer than that for some reason. if anyone wants to see the calculations tell me.
In that case it seems pretty boring and standard.
He will only have a diamond 1/3 of the time he has AA and wont when he has AK/KK, so flop/turn are boring.
You beat AA,AK, 9 combinations vs 3KK, so river doesn´t seem that exiting either.
baronzeus
10-21-2005, 10:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
In that case it seems pretty boring and standard.
He will only have a diamond 1/3 of the time he has AA and wont when he has AK/KK, so flop/turn are boring.
You beat AA,AK, 9 combinations vs 3KK, so river doesn´t seem that exiting either.
[/ QUOTE ]
ya its pretty boring. oh well. seemed exciting at the time. i was thinking most ppl's instinct would be just to lay it down on the flop.
joker122
10-21-2005, 10:41 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You beat AA,AK, 9 combinations vs 3KK, so river doesn´t seem that exiting either.
[/ QUOTE ]
but does he 3bet the river with anything but KK?
I think he will often enough to call it.
sthief09
10-21-2005, 11:28 PM
it's a simple math problem when you have him on AA, KK, or AK. there are 6 AA, 3 KK, and 12 AK. against the 6 AA, you have 11 outs half the time (vs a small redraw) and 2 outs vs a 1/4 redraw half the time, so 6.25 outs vs AA. against KK you have 9 outs vs a 1/3 redraw, so 6 outs. against AK a quarter of the time you have 2 outs vs a 1/5 redraw, and three quarters of the time you have 11 full outs. so you have 8.65 outs
EDIT: crap, I forget that sometimes when you hit a flush with 7 of the 9 diamonds, he will have 6 outs to a chop because 5 bigger diamonds will be on board. so that's about a 14% reduction of odds the times your flush is good. without going back and redoing the amth, that should kill about 10% of odds. sorry, just remembered this
so 6 @ 6.25, 3 @ 6 outs and 12 @ 8.65
that works out to around 7.5 outs, minus the 10%, so 6.75 (everything is head math so it could be wrong. someone check if it you want. I feel like [censored] so I'm rushing through this). you're not going to fold any turn cards, and you're getting 10-1, so 11-2 effective, which is enough for 6.75 outs twice.
so you have 6.75 outs and you'll pay off 11 cards so you're get to SD around 42%. 9 of the outs will net you 0 when they help and 1 when they hurt. 2 of them should net around 2 when they help. so you have a little bit of reverse implied odds but the calls should still be profitable
oreogod
10-22-2005, 12:02 AM
[ QUOTE ]
if anyone wants to see the calculations tell me.
[/ QUOTE ]
really no need. Well unless u want to post for others that could be reading this...as your number is spot on with what Pstove puts out.
woe. thanks dude! this is amusing!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what is "pwns"? still learning some acronyms.
[/ QUOTE ]
kinda close to "owns" but a much more in your face version. It comes from the Warcraft game era (actually mentions this below):
From Urban dictionary:
PWN (verb)
1. An act of dominating an opponent.
2. Great, ingenious; applied to methods and objects.
Originally dates back to the days of WarCraft, when a map designer mispelled "Own" as "Pwn". What was originally supose to be "player has been owned." was "player has been pwned".
Pwn eventually grew from there and is now used throughout the online world, especially in online games.
1. "I pwn these guys on battlenet"
2. "This strategy pwns!" or "This game pwn."
LINK -- for more variations (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pwn)
[/ QUOTE ]
TheMetetron
10-22-2005, 01:40 AM
Umm, maybe fold PF if a LRR is likely from this guy.
Other than that, it seems played very standard.
maxpowers21
10-23-2005, 01:07 PM
this is an easy fold preflop. Easy.
stinkypete
10-23-2005, 03:25 PM
btw, i'm not loose in the BB in situations like this. i might defend against steals a lot when it's folded to me, but i'm pretty tight when there's 3 people in the pot. (apparently i was the BB in this hand)
baronzeus
10-23-2005, 04:11 PM
[ QUOTE ]
btw, i'm not loose in the BB in situations like this. i might defend against steals a lot when it's folded to me, but i'm pretty tight when there's 3 people in the pot. (apparently i was the BB in this hand)
[/ QUOTE ]
it was a joke /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
stinkypete
10-28-2005, 06:52 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
btw, i'm not loose in the BB in situations like this. i might defend against steals a lot when it's folded to me, but i'm pretty tight when there's 3 people in the pot. (apparently i was the BB in this hand)
[/ QUOTE ]
it was a joke /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
lies.
mex78753
10-28-2005, 08:11 AM
I dont play this high so you can use that as an excuse to ignore this (i'm sure ya'll will). But this isn't even a close call pre-flop when you know LAG is going to LRR a good % of the time (which you already know to be true).
I agree that flop and turn calls are standard. Other than the pre-flop call I think you played it fine.
Then again what does a 5/10 6max fish know?
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