Harringtons strategy - advice needed

[Pondy]

According to the following hand I have an M thats says i should push all in.

The table is tight, 20 left all in the money.

what do you think?


p.s ante's are 200
------HAND 5------
Game #1117177553: Hold'em NL (800/1600) - 2005/10/22 - 00:58:23 (UK)
Table "£10K FRIDAY 1235479 - 3" Seat 8 is the button.
Seat 1: Amarok (79335.38 in chips)
Seat 2: Daes265 (10339.24 in chips)
Seat 3: Wilksie (7980 in chips)
Seat 6: Pondy_ (23117.50 in chips)
Seat 8: stakaman (41057.88 in chips)
Seat 9: Goagoa (102065 in chips)
Seat 10: Ronenp (4440 in chips)
Goagoa: posts the ante 200
Ronenp: posts the ante 200
Amarok: posts the ante 200
Daes265: posts the ante 200
Wilksie: posts the ante 200
Pondy_: posts the ante 200
stakaman: posts the ante 200
Goagoa: posts small blind 800
Ronenp: posts big blind 1600
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Pondy_ [9c 9s]
Amarok: folds
Daes265: folds
Wilksie: folds
Pondy_: raises to 4800
stakaman: folds
Goagoa: folds
Ronenp: folds
Returned uncalled bets 3,200 to Pondy_
Pondy_: doesn't show hand
Pondy_ collected 5400 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot 5400 Main pot 5400 Rake 0
Seat 1: Amarok folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Daes265 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Wilksie folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Pondy_ collected 5400
Seat 8: stakaman (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Goagoa (small blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 10: Ronenp (big blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[illegit]

Push.

[IHateKeithSmart]

Hmm, I probably need to read vol. II. I think your raise is fine here, and is probably what I'd do. I have no problems with a push either.

[McMelchior]

You're wrong.

Harrington doesn't say push here.

But - are you planning to folding to a re-raise?

If not you're better off pushing.

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

[Exitonly]

i'd probably just raise (4000) but i dont see anything wrong with pushing. might do the math out later to see which would be better, but theres a lot of guessing in the math, so dunno if it's even worth doing.

[Lloyd]

Well, depending upon how strictly you look at Harrington it could be argued that he advocates (incorrectly IMO) a push here. Remember the section on "Modified M"?

One round costs 3800. The hero had 23117 so his M is 6 in which case Harrington would probably advocate a raise. But the table is 7 handed and Harrington suggests to modify the M by multiplying it by the number of players at the table divided by 10. So in this case the modified M is 4.3 - in the Red zone - because we're seeing the blinds more frequently.

I think pushing only gets called by hands we don't want to be called by. I'd make a normal raise and go from there.

I usually push here. You're in LP, and as HOH says you'll have first in viggorish. I can see Lloyd's point too. Looking at the stacks that are still to act, I think the button and SB would have a hard time calling with anything but QQ or better, maybe even KK. The push puts the pressure on them, which in this case I like so long as they don't end up with a premium hand.

[bweiser8311962]

[ QUOTE ]
I usually push here. You're in LP, and as HOH says you'll have first in viggorish. I can see Lloyd's point too. Looking at the stacks that are still to act, I think the button and SB would have a hard time calling with anything but QQ or better, maybe even KK. The push puts the pressure on them, which in this case I like so long as they don't end up with a premium hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I'm the BB I have a hard time laying ANYTHING down here. You've got 4400 and 1600 are already in the pot? It's this hand or next. I'd probably take my chances this hand.

[tshak]

[ QUOTE ]
i'd probably just raise (4000) but i dont see anything wrong with pushing. might do the math out later to see which would be better, but theres a lot of guessing in the math, so dunno if it's even worth doing.

[/ QUOTE ]
This gives the blinds between 2.5:1-3.25:1 to call. If SB is a tough player and will bet high cards (whether or not he hits) then I'd want to raise closer to 6,000 here. If the blinds in general are fairly solid and generally bet their hands for value, or if hero is confident playing a hand like 99 postflop, then the 4,500 range is fine. Obviously BB is super short so in this case we run the cards out if he's the only caller.

[Exitonly]

Why would SB be betting at high cards regardless of wether he hits? Most of the time if he tags along, i'll be the one better at the 'high cards' and i'll take down a bigger post most of the time.

But even giving the blinds good odds, A) they don't come along that often B) The odds aren't THAT good, so if they're calling pretty liberally, they're leaking chips, to me.

[tshak]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would SB be betting at high cards regardless of wether he hits? Most of the time if he tags along, i'll be the one better at the 'high cards' and i'll take down a bigger post most of the time.


[/ QUOTE ]
I think depending on the level you're right more often than not. I tend to be very aggressive in the blinds when I'm getting good odds to call. I probe a lot of boards depending on my opponent and other factors (maybe this is a leak?). Against an opponent like me, I would think that 99 becomes a bit harder to play because its post flop strength is usually weak. The BB is usually a bigger concern (not here as they're allin/fold). Getting 3.25:1 it's correct for me to call with a wide range of hands.

All that being said, after considering your remarks I do like your line for many situations. I just think that it's a matter of how comfortable one is playing this hand postflop.

[FishInAPhoneBooth]

[ QUOTE ]
I think pushing only gets called by hands we don't want to be called by. I'd make a normal raise and go from there.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if either big stack raises you are going to fold?