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10-21-2005, 06:03 PM
Down to 4 people in a pp tourney:
this is what it is right now:
150/300
SB: 1200
Hero(BB): 2500
UTG: 430
Button: 3200
Hero is dealt A /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gif
UTG folds
Button is all-in
SB folds
What do you do here?
thanks for the input
LostMyCaseMoney
10-21-2005, 06:03 PM
Call.
fisherman112
10-21-2005, 06:12 PM
why should he call?
to play devil's advocate, one player has barely over 1bb and the hero has twice as many chips as 3rd place. if hero wins the race for his stack against the button, he's in a dominating chip position, but it seems unnecessarily risky.
ZeroPointMachine
10-21-2005, 06:18 PM
Button is pushing into you because you can't call and he is right. Fold.
10-21-2005, 06:20 PM
I agree...I think I fold. Decent chance you are in for a coin flip...even if you are not...what are you hoping the other guy has? You think he has an ace or a king? You want to risk your tourney on it given the other stack sizes and the blinds?
LostMyCaseMoney
10-21-2005, 06:20 PM
Villian is pushing a ton of hands and many of them hero has dominated. I didn't run the numbers on how large of a favorite hero is over X hand range but when you do that and look @ the ICM I would say it turns out to be +EV to call. I may be wrong but I don't think so. I'll run it later when I'm on my own computer.
10-21-2005, 06:22 PM
I don't care if ICM says that it is +ev...I am folding everything but KK and AA in this spot.
DyessMan89
10-21-2005, 06:23 PM
This is a routine laydown. Very routine.
ZeroPointMachine
10-21-2005, 06:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Villian is pushing a ton of hands and many of them hero has dominated. I didn't run the numbers on how large of a favorite hero is over X hand range but when you do that and look @ the ICM I would say it turns out to be +EV to call. I may be wrong but I don't think so. I'll run it later when I'm on my own computer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Remember ICM is not going to account for the short stack who can't pay the blinds. Your calling range here should be AA only. If big stack shows you A2 you still can't call here.
LostMyCaseMoney
10-21-2005, 06:31 PM
Well I'm outnumbered by players with more experience at SnGs then me so I guess I lose =] I only started playing 10-man SnGs last week so I guess they know best. Leaks like this from playing 6-man SnGs and NL Ring is why I started low. I'm still curious to run the numbers though.
psyduck
10-21-2005, 06:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
This is a routine laydown. Very routine.

[/ QUOTE ]
tigerite
10-21-2005, 09:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong answer. Want another go?
tigerite
10-21-2005, 09:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villian is pushing a ton of hands and many of them hero has dominated. I didn't run the numbers on how large of a favorite hero is over X hand range but when you do that and look @ the ICM I would say it turns out to be +EV to call. I may be wrong but I don't think so. I'll run it later when I'm on my own computer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Remember ICM is not going to account for the short stack who can't pay the blinds. Your calling range here should be AA only. If big stack shows you A2 you still can't call here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it does to an extent, the short stack's EV will be very, very low. This is why it's a blatant fold. ICM will for sure say this is a fold, I guaran-damn-tee it. I could run the maths but really it's not even worth it in this situation.
tigerite
10-21-2005, 09:16 PM
I ran it anyway, just for a laugh.

EV Fold: 0.3112
EV Call and Win: 0.4330
EV Call and Lose: 0

x * 0.4330 = 0.3112 + 0.005 (edge)

x = 0.3162 / 0.4330 = 0.73 = Must be a 73% favourite to call

Even if you don't want any edge at all you need to be a 71.9% favourite over his range.

Erm, this is never going to happen no matter what he's pushing with, unless you can somehow see his cards and know he has Ax or Kx. Sadly, this isn't possible, as pairs, QJ, and well.. any two at all are going to be in his range as well.
Uppercut
10-21-2005, 10:04 PM
Given the shortstack and the fact that I only have Ace high at this point, I fold this hand approximately 100% of the time in this particular situation.
10-21-2005, 10:32 PM
Does this mean that you should push anything from the button?
lastchance
10-21-2005, 10:52 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Does this mean that you should push anything from the button?

[/ QUOTE ]
And this is the key to bubble play with good people.