Slow plays at loose-passive tables? (LC?)

Longtime reader, first-time poster. No good reads on any player (and no idea how people saw me) but a generally loose-passive table. My apologies for having no idea how best to present this hand, since I'm actually interested in feedback on MP1's play.

Both MP1 and I made at least one seemingly obvious mistake, though MP1's is the more interesting one, especially if it's a clever play after all.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is BB
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks.

River: (7.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP1 calls.

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Final Pot: 13.50 BB
Hero has Ks 5s (three of a kind, fives).
MP1 has Ac Qd (two pair, aces and queens).
Outcome: Hero wins 13.50 BB. </font>

[krimson]

Fold the flop. Don't post results.

[newhizzle]

MP1 should have bet the turn, you really should have folded the flop

[alul]

Would be more interesting if you indicated somewhere in the post what hand you had preflop. I had to look in the results and this makes the post pointless. Fold preflop anyway.

[ QUOTE ]
Would be more interesting if you indicated somewhere in the post what hand you had preflop. I had to look in the results and this makes the post pointless. Fold preflop anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, no. Getting 9 to 1 pre-flop with a hand that should win at least 10% of the time.

As everyone else said, flop call is obviously wrong, getting 14 to 1 immediately but with no more than 2 outs.

Like I said, none of my plays in this hand are interesting. I posted wondering whether MP1's turn check was interesting (or just a random bad mistake). Probably should've just shown MP1's hand and left out the result.

Preflop I call every time. This flop call is nowhere near as bad as you guys make it out to be. You have two backdoor draws to the nuts, and you are closing the action. See Peter_Rus's post on this point.

I can only imagine MP1 mistakenly attempted a check raise. This is a bad check raise because no one else is showing strength, so this checks through 80%+ of the time, esp at a passive table. Slowplaying is even worse. way worse! Got calling stations who don't fold until the river, no one else showing strength... this is the wrong time to be deceptive. Also, to call the flop you need ~3 outs, and BDFD and BDSD fall just short of that.

[alul]

[ QUOTE ]
Getting 9 to 1 pre-flop with a hand that should win at least 10% of the time.


[/ QUOTE ]

Agree, after playing with pokerstove a bit I have to admit this is a call. /images/graemlins/blush.gif
Fold on the flop though.

[elindauer]

MP1 played the hand terribly on the turn, and that river raise is suspect as well. Your flop call is pretty bad, but your badness trumps his badness. nh.

good luck.
eric

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop I call every time. This flop call is nowhere near as bad as you guys make it out to be. You have two backdoor draws to the nuts, and you are closing the action. See Peter_Rus's post on this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it's bad. One of those nut backdoor draws is to a broadway 4-straight, which may well be good only for 1/2 the pot even if he is lucky enough to get to see the river, which is not a given at all. In fact, if he only picks up a gutshot, he'll have to fold the turn quite often.

good luck.
eric

[Harv72b]

Agreed that preflop is an easy call with a sooted king.

Agreed that the flop is a lousy call. Two backdoor draws + backdoor 2 pair/trips = ~3 outs, and you're getting only 14:1 immediate. Plus, you won't have pot odds to call a turn bet with anything less than a 4-flush, so in reality you're looking at 1.5 outs on the flop.

MP1 needs to bet the turn 100% of the time against a loose/passive field this large. This hand illustrates exactly why.