56o

[QTip]

ok...let's try not to get 80 responses flaming the PF call.

I'd like to talk about the flop play.

Also, given the way I played it, what is your plan on this river?

Villain is a decent player. Tight and aggressive.

The hijack limper...well...I don't really need to say more.


Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 folds, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, CO calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls.

River: (9.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

[Borodog]

&lt;insert PF flame here&gt;

Other than that, what's the question? Bet-call. Are you that worried about QJ/JJ?

[jason_t]

Why did you call preflop? It's pretty bad.

Flop play is fine: don't slow play baby two pair, especially on that flop.

Turn is fine.

Bet/call the river.

[brettbrettr]

I'd bet call the river. I'm not that worried about a club, a bit more bout QJ but really not so much.

I think you played this perfectly (if you bet the river).

[shant]

I call with 76o there, so I guess 65o can't be far off. I think he has a top pair hand like AQ or KK or AA more than a flush draw on the flop. The only hand I can see capped that just beat you is AKs. I bet/call.

[W. Deranged]

Flop is perfect. Check-raise is great for value and protection Bet-three-betting is another option but I think you'll get three-bet by a bunch of hands which let's you cap.

Turn bet is good.

Bet the river, and probably call a raise. A river raise will be a bluff often enough to call. Villain is not on a /images/graemlins/club.gif draw all that often, nor will the J likely help.

[JinX11]

We're betting. And we're calling a raise. His turn call tells me he does have QQ. The only hand we are afraid of is A/images/graemlins/club.gifK/images/graemlins/club.gif.

Or are you contemplating the sexy?

[newhizzle]

i bet call, the rest looks good

[callmedonnie]

bet/call the river, see that you are ahead of AQ/KQ. I like the c/r on the flop. I prefer having Hijack limper call two cold rather than put two in one at a time.

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet call the river. I'm not that worried about a club, a bit more bout QJ but really not so much.

I think you played this perfectly (if you bet the river).

[/ QUOTE ]

I did bet the river.

I'm wondering what people think of a call the 3 bet and c/r the turn?

[Borodog]

[ QUOTE ]
We're betting. And we're calling a raise. His turn call tells me he does have QQ. The only hand we are afraid of is A/images/graemlins/club.gifK/images/graemlins/club.gif.

Or are you contemplating the sexy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sexy is terrible here.

[callmedonnie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet call the river. I'm not that worried about a club, a bit more bout QJ but really not so much.

I think you played this perfectly (if you bet the river).

[/ QUOTE ]

Bottom two pair is not a hand I like to play this way. I get countered too much. I know you're ahead, but I tend to just push these hands hard and not get tricky.

I did bet the river.

I'm wondering what people think of a call the 3 bet and c/r the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet call the river. I'm not that worried about a club, a bit more bout QJ but really not so much.

I think you played this perfectly (if you bet the river).

[/ QUOTE ]

I did bet the river.

I'm wondering what people think of a call the 3 bet and c/r the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

That'd be fine, but note:

1. Everytime the turn gets checked through, you lose 1.5 BB you would have made by capping and leading, so you need to be sure the turn will be bet like 75% of the time to take that route.

2. Check-raising the turn gives your opponent an easier opportunity to fold, in my opinion.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet call the river. I'm not that worried about a club, a bit more bout QJ but really not so much.

I think you played this perfectly (if you bet the river).

[/ QUOTE ]

I did bet the river.

I'm wondering what people think of a call the 3 bet and c/r the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

No free cards. No FPS. No letting him get away from his hand easily.

[thejameser]

nh. preflop is debatable; in general a bad call, but generalities are no good in poker.

[toss]

Really 76o for 5.5:1? Are you making this call because of your postflop position to the Prelop raiser?

[shant]

I know preflop wasn't supposed to be discussed but everyone has agreed on the postflop line. Where are people cutting off what they call here? We're assuming play good postflop here.

89o? 76o? I'm a fish so I don't know.

[toss]

My cutoff is JTo. I probably play too tight though...

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
I know preflop wasn't supposed to be discussed but everyone has agreed on the postflop line. Where are people cutting off what they call here? We're assuming play good postflop here.

89o? 76o? I'm a fish so I don't know.

[/ QUOTE ]

5.50:1? Come on. This shouldn't be close.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you call preflop? It's pretty bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
Really 76o for 5.5:1? Are you making this call because of your postflop position to the Prelop raiser?

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I can checkraise if I flop a top pair type hand, but really I don't know for sure if that's right. I mostly make that call because I remember Mason doing that in a Hand to Talk About thread in Mid-High a while back. So I'm looking to hear from people who know more than me.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I think I remember Mason having position in that hand, so maybe it was an SB raise, or he was stealing with it.

[Borodog]

[ QUOTE ]
I know preflop wasn't supposed to be discussed but everyone has agreed on the postflop line. Where are people cutting off what they call here? We're assuming play good postflop here.

89o? 76o? I'm a fish so I don't know.

[/ QUOTE ]

My blind defense leaks like a sieve, but I really hate getting involved OOP with offsuit middle cards. I call with JTo but not T9o. I know. This is probably terrible. With a bunch of limpers who I know will call another 1, giving me decent odds if I flop a straight draw, I'll defend probably down to 98o.

[brettbrettr]

With a donk MP limp and a reasonably aggresisve CO I think I'd play 98o here.

[BigEndian]

Really? I muck both and don't think twice about it. Suited yes, but I think even that is cutting it thin. My reasoning is that a) you are not going to see a flop you like often enough and b) the lack of multi-way action on most streets saps the strength out of draws.

- Jim

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
because I remember Mason doing that in a Hand to Talk About thread in Mid-High a while back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, I really think I know what thread you're talking about and I really think he had T9o.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Really 76o for 5.5:1? Are you making this call because of your postflop position to the Prelop raiser?

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I can checkraise if I flop a top pair type hand, but really I don't know for sure if that's right. I mostly make that call because I remember Mason doing that in a Hand to Talk About thread in Mid-High a while back. So I'm looking to hear from people who know more than me.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I think I remember Mason having position in that hand, so maybe it was an SB raise, or he was stealing with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The game was four-handed. He called with 67o against an SB steal. The SB was a LAG.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
because I remember Mason doing that in a Hand to Talk About thread in Mid-High a while back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, I really think I know what thread you're talking about and I really think he had T9o.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif.

[brettbrettr]

Ya, different thread then. I guess he's posted more than one hand. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[bobbyi]

Bet the flop. If someone raises, you reraise. And then bet the turn.

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet call the river. I'm not that worried about a club, a bit more bout QJ but really not so much.

I think you played this perfectly (if you bet the river).

[/ QUOTE ]

I did bet the river.

I'm wondering what people think of a call the 3 bet and c/r the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

No free cards. No FPS. No letting him get away from his hand easily.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with the no free cards and no FPS, but not your last statement. if the villain has a pair he's going to be making a mistake by folding.

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the flop. If someone raises, you reraise. And then bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like this line bobby. As you mentioned, they both have more outs on me than they would probably realize. I just want the hand over with and sliding my way. I'll take everyone out as soon as I can.

I don't think this river gets bet often enough after you check (CO can no longer put you on a busted club draw), and a c/r will expose to you a 3-bet from a better hand (although less likely bc/ of the flush). I think that the river bet is your best move.

For those who say bet/call instead of bet/fold, what do you think CO will raise river with that you beat?

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet call the river. I'm not that worried about a club, a bit more bout QJ but really not so much.

I think you played this perfectly (if you bet the river).

[/ QUOTE ]

I did bet the river.

I'm wondering what people think of a call the 3 bet and c/r the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

No free cards. No FPS. No letting him get away from his hand easily.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with the no free cards and no FPS, but not your last statement. if the villain has a pair he's going to be making a mistake by folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

Win large pots immediately.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why did you call preflop? It's pretty bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop is beyond standard. Call with any two connectors in this spot.

[nfscreech]

[ QUOTE ]
5.50:1? Come on. This shouldn't be close.


[/ QUOTE ]

No high card strength.
No suitedness.
Only connectedness.

But we'll ignore PF play because you know it's bad. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rest of the hand is good.
You are going to lead this turn unless a horrible card hits to prevent giving free cards. There is no point in letting villian have the lead, since you will bet the turn 95% of the time. Cap for value.

You played it well.

[Borodog]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop is beyond standard. Call with any two connectors in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is foolhardy.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet call the river. I'm not that worried about a club, a bit more bout QJ but really not so much.

I think you played this perfectly (if you bet the river).

[/ QUOTE ]

I did bet the river.

I'm wondering what people think of a call the 3 bet and c/r the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

No free cards. No FPS. No letting him get away from his hand easily.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with the no free cards and no FPS, but not your last statement. if the villain has a pair he's going to be making a mistake by folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

Win large pots immediately.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're an idiot.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop is beyond standard. Call with any two connectors in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is foolhardy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure you get it. check the rest of his posts. /images/graemlins/smile.gif