Fold QQ?? - Got raised on J high flop - Turn King

[MNpoker]

No read at all It's my first hand.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold,UTG+1 raises, 2 folds, MP3 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero caps, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (12.66 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 3-bets, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.33 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero ??

[TimM]

Why didn't you 3-bet the flop?

[ QUOTE ]
No read at all It's my first hand.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold,UTG+1 raises, 2 folds, MP3 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero caps, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (12.66 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 3-bets, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.33 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero ??

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a tough situation, when the villain calls/3bets the flop and he plays normal, I would put him on JJ,AA,KK,AhKh. When the turn comes theres not one hand you can beat now. So whether to continue or not beyond the turn depends on your read of the villain. Is he a very good player? if so then you should fold since he will have one of the above 4 hands. Is he a wild player? If thats the case he can still have as little as a flush draw, or just AJ or some other weird hand. Obviously you should call down in that situation. With no read at all on the villain, I would assume he plays logically and thus I would fold the turn since I would put him on JJ,AA,KK,AhKh. But assuming your opponent plays logically can be very dangerous sometimes, but I still think this is the best policy with no read.

[MNpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
Why didn't you 3-bet the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I'm way ahead (99, TT, KJ*, AJ) or way behind (AA, KK, set)
Or possibly slightly behind AhKh

*Though this would be a bad player, it's not unheard of at this game.

And what could UTG+1 have?
I was thinking flush draw or TPGK when he called my preflop bet. (Which is all the info I have when deciding to 3 bet the flop or not)

[AceHigh]

Your in trouble, looks like an easy fold.

[DcifrThs]

On the flop, the pot is getting big, the only reason i'd just call the raise is to try to c'r a turn. but i'd only do that if the turn wont swing my equity a lot. Here it will b/c any A/K may put you way behind, and any heart may slow down the flop raiser.

therefore, i like a 3bet.

if UTG+1 calls and MP caps and you both call, you know where UTG is at. you dont want a heart, you dont want an A/K and you are basically done w/ the hand for 1 more bet. id plan on betting most non bad turns and folding to a raise in either case after you 3bet.

question is should you bet a Heart on the turn given UTG calls your 3bet? should you even call a single bet on the turn given that?

id say that you're in trouble if that heart comes as there are no real ways you have a draw when UTG hits a flush given the only cards that are hearts out there for him to have given he raised pf are higher than yours.

Barron

Barron

[elindauer]

You should fold, and here's why:

UTG raised the flop in a spot where he could not possibly hope to take it down. That means he WANTS more money to go in. What hands are these? On a J42 board, that's either a set, or big draw.

What kinds of big draws could be out there? Well, your Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif and the board J /images/graemlins/heart.gif take away a lot of the big draws that didn't just catch a pair to beat you anyways. AQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif, QT /images/graemlins/heart.gif... you know he doesn't have these.

That leaves AT /images/graemlins/heart.gif as about the only hand you beat right now. You might add some tiny shot at A4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif or A3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, but not many people raise those in EP.

He's played his hand exactly like jacks. You are usually drawing dead for not 1 but 2 big bets, and the few times you are ahead, you still have to dodge his huge draw. Getting only 12:2 to call down, I don't think it's there. Give it up.

my 2 cents.
eric

[DeeJ]

i fold it here against an unknown. He limp-rr the flop, which is baaaaaad news. hope it worked out for you!

lay it down. You lose to his entire range: KK, AA, AK, JJ.

[MNpoker]

RESULTS:

[ QUOTE ]
He's played his hand exactly like jacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

BINGO!!

River was a blank and I somehow convinced myself he could have Axh or AJ.
Think I tend to 'make up' possible hands I can beat in these situations.

Thanks for the comments all!