KQs from my video 3/6 [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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10-21-2005, 03:02 PM

KsQs on BTN openraise
SB(50/33 17 hands) 3-bets, BB (43/11/1,5 125 hands) Call, u cap, both call.
FLOP: 7s7h3d
checked to u, u bet, sb c/r bb folds.
TURN: 4s
SB checks, u ???

deception5

10-21-2005, 03:07 PM

I'd check behind and try to get lucky.

stigmata

10-21-2005, 03:09 PM

Any other read?

What are we beating at the moment other than a complete bluff? If he's a maniac I'll show it down, otherwise just check the turn.

RunDownHouse

10-21-2005, 03:09 PM

Since I expect a c/f here about never, I check behind.

10-21-2005, 03:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Any other read?
<font color="red"> No reads, and I was singletabling /images/graemlins/frown.gif </font>
What are we beating at the moment other than a complete bluff? If he's a maniac I'll show it down, otherwise just check the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think we are behind atm of the bluff

[ QUOTE ]
KQs at 4:23 when you typed "u like?" - I liked. Good spot to turn semi-bluff after being c/r on the flop. Nice hand.

Regards,
Pete Harris

[/ QUOTE ]

I think baronzeus also bets turn.

Trix checks behind without read

Link to the video thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=3732788&page=2&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1)

u all like pf cap?

aslowjoe

10-21-2005, 03:32 PM

I have a flop aggression level of over 3 but this is one of the rare times I will check the flop. It looks like SB is a maniac and itching to c/r plus we still have BB in the pot and I think your folding equity is minimal here.

I would also have capped the flop not only from an equity standpoint but from a control stand point.

The way you played it I would check the turn. I think this guy is calling you down with A high. This is all based on the very thin read of villan over 17 hands and labeling him as a typical maniac.

RunDownHouse

10-21-2005, 04:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is all based on the very thin read of villan over 17 hands and labeling him as a typical maniac.

[/ QUOTE ]
Which is why that read should not have been included at all.

KDawgCometh

10-21-2005, 04:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
TURN: 4s
SB checks, u ???

[/ QUOTE ]

check with outs

10-21-2005, 04:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is all based on the very thin read of villan over 17 hands and labeling him as a typical maniac.

[/ QUOTE ]
Which is why that read should not have been included at all.

[/ QUOTE ]
I did include because other people commenting on the hand knew them stats, but agree that he just is unknown.
People should be able to look away from the stats if they are meaningless.

TheMetetron

10-21-2005, 04:58 PM

Cap is situational. Probably cap like 30% of the time with position like this and cause it's a blind steal.

I am definitely checking this turn. It's very much not close in my opinion.

10-21-2005, 04:59 PM

What are the chances that villian folds?

And how often do we need him to fold?

PennDisc

10-21-2005, 05:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What are the chances that villian folds?

And how often do we need him to fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ordinarily, against 99% of all players who take this line with any 2 cards the chance of a fold is pretty much 0. Even some maniac who took this line with TJ will call to try to hit a pair given the size of this pot. I cannot fathom what kind of hand the villain could have played this way to then check-fold on the turn.

10-21-2005, 05:22 PM

If the SB really had a 7 (which is unlikely since he 3-balled you), he would wait till the river before letting you know. His check-raise is a scare tactic to try to represent either a 7 or an overpair.

Given the smaple size of the SB's hands, the only thing you can determine from that data is that he isnt loosepassive. That is all.

baronzeus

10-21-2005, 05:33 PM

bet because you have the best hand

gildwulf

10-21-2005, 05:50 PM

I check behind here almost every time with no read (your read isn't really a read). Although I think your play is interesting...kind of FPS for 3/6 though.

10-21-2005, 05:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If the SB really had a 7 (which is unlikely since he 3-balled you), he would wait till the river before letting you know. His check-raise is a scare tactic to try to represent either a 7 or an overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]
Does this mean u check or bet? Sounds like a bet

KDawgCometh

10-21-2005, 06:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What are the chances that villian folds?

And how often do we need him to fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the chances are very slim to be honest. He either has a strong ace and is going to showdown regardless, or he's setting you up for another CR on the turn

baronzeus

10-21-2005, 06:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Although I think your play is interesting...kind of FPS for 3/6 though.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe im misunderstanding something. i know SB is a total donkey, and i know i have a strong high card on a weak board, and i have a flush draw to go along with it.

bet for value. not fps.

KDawgCometh

10-21-2005, 06:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Although I think your play is interesting...kind of FPS for 3/6 though.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe im misunderstanding something. i know SB is a total donkey, and i know i have a strong high card on a weak board, and i have a flush draw to go along with it.

bet for value. not fps.

[/ QUOTE ]

we don't know if this guy is a total donk. He's played 17 hands and has played half of them. He very well could be on a heater and be holding good hands. OP didn't mention any showdown hands to give us an idea of what he has. All we really know is that this guy isn't some passive player.

I really don't think that there is much value in a bet here. We have 15 possible outs to hit on the river, we can improve in many different ways. taking a free card really makes the most sense

RunDownHouse

10-21-2005, 07:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
bet for value. not fps.

[/ QUOTE ]
He's not checking to fold, agreed? So he's checking either to check/raise or to get to showdown. There's also a chance he's hoping to get a free card.

If he c/r, we've wasted our bet. If he's getting to showdown, he has a hand he doesn't want to get pushed off of, which is A-high, PP, maaaaaaybe K-high. In both of those situations, we're largely [censored]. The only time a bet is good is if either he's trying to get to showdown with K-high or he's on a draw.

I don't think checking behind is close to betting at all.

tizim

10-21-2005, 07:18 PM

I check because IMO there's very little value to betting, I want to get to showdown cheaply, and I expect to get checkraised on the turn like 80% of the time I bet.

10-22-2005, 12:23 AM

Time for results eventhough no agreement have been made yet...

I did bet turn and villian folded /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

TheMetetron

10-22-2005, 01:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Time for results eventhough no agreement have been made yet...

I did bet turn and villian folded /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't get used to that. I'm going to say baronzeus' advice is wrong. If you want to call a river bet, you can maybe get me to agree to that in the right circumstances, but I'm not paying another (possibly) 2 BB's here to see a river. In fact, I don't even want to pay one. Take the free card. Re-evaluate on the river.