30-60 k-10c whats your thoughts on pre-flop play

[ANY2CARDZ]

This is not a hand I played but Im not convinced that this raise is correct against 3 limpers. Is this standard?


Pre-flop
ischan limps in mp3 64/9/1.3, stevejpa calls, JHLEE111 calls in cutoff, sb folds, Hero raises in BB with k-10c.

This is actually easily solved as a mathematical formula. You get their range of hands, and contrast K10c with them in terms of equity, subtracting a little perhaps from being out of position, but you can add a little since you'll out play them post flop (if this is true). So, the question to you is, what are these opponents range of hands, and how does K10s compare to them.

[MNpoker]

I would not raise this hand preflop. I wouldn't even consider it.

[Jeffage]

It's not right or wrong. It just is. It's just making a big pot so if you flop nice people might chase. If your opponents would chase anyway, it's probably not necessary. Three limpers, I'd say it's borderline. 6 or 7 limpers, I'd probably jack it up and build a fat pot since it plays well multiway and just for variation.

Jeff

[TStoneMBD]

whoever played this hand must be a total retard

[ANY2CARDZ]

haha, nuff said.

[JAA]

[ QUOTE ]
whoever played this hand must be a total retard

[/ QUOTE ]

You really think it's THAT bad? Definitely not SOP, but I don't think raising KTs from the BB after 3 limpers makes you a "total retard."

That said, I've personally never made this raise in an online game.

- Jags

[partygirluk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
whoever played this hand must be a total retard

[/ QUOTE ]

You really think it's THAT bad? Definitely not SOP, but I don't think raising KTs from the BB after 3 limpers makes you a "total retard."

That said, I've personally never made this raise in an online game.

- Jags

[/ QUOTE ]

I would guess that TstoneMbd played the hand......

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't even consider it.


[/ QUOTE ]

yea...thats a problem.

Barron

[Brom]

What if hero was on button and one more person had limped in? Raise it then?

I think it plays quite well multiway, but way better when one has position. Out of position I'm not sure that it is going to be +EV do to the negative implied odds of domination. Anyone else care to comment on the situation I listed above in the first paragraph?

[TStoneMBD]

[ QUOTE ]
I would guess that TstoneMbd played the hand......

[/ QUOTE ]

=)

also, i think the preflop raise is very easy. id be interested to hear others thoughts on why they dont like it if they have any.

[mc1023]

don't really like or hate it, guess it's fine as long as you dont throw in a continuation bet after you miss the flop into 3 limpers.

the fact that they are all mp to button limpers make me feel like you won't be dominated on your pairs too often.

why not see the flop cheap though?

I would raise this if my image is good and im running the table over, otherwise ehm option is good.

[stigmata]

I already replied to this hand elsewhere. I did a pokerstove analysis:

I used the middle 10-65% of limping hands for donator, and for the two unkowns I thought middle 10-25% of hands was a fair guess. This was the results:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 28.5116 % 26.74% 01.77% { KcTc }
Hand 2: 22.7142 % 22.55% 00.16% { 77-22, A9s-A2s, K9s-K2s, QTs-Q2s, J2s+, T2s+, 94s+, 84s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s, ATo-A2o, KJo-K2o, Q4o+, J6o+, T7o+, 97o+, 86o+, 76o }
Hand 3: 24.0836 % 22.18% 01.90% { A9s-A2s, K9s-K6s, QTs-Q8s, J8s+, T8s+, ATo-A7o, KJo-K9o, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 4: 24.6906 % 22.81% 01.88% { 77-66, A9s-A2s, K9s-K6s, QTs-Q8s, J8s+, T8s+, ATo-A7o, KJo-K9o, QTo+, JTo }

Some things to note here:
1) We have reasonable preflop equity against this lineup and I believe raising is correct.
2) Most of our equity is coming from the table donator
3) I think I was actually a little tight with the other late position limpers, so we probably have a little more equity against them than revealed above.

Basically, it really depends who limped in. With one apalling player and a couple of mediocre players, a raise seems correct. With three "average" limpers the raise probably becomes somewhat thinner from a preflop equity veiwpoint.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would guess that TstoneMbd played the hand......

[/ QUOTE ]

=)

also, i think the preflop raise is very easy. id be interested to hear others thoughts on why they dont like it if they have any.

[/ QUOTE ]

the addendum to the raise imo is how far you go/well you play/ margain hands vs. 3 players OOP. if you aren't comfortable with that, then raising for equity value based on statistics may be -ev.

Barron

[stevepa]

[ QUOTE ]
This is not a hand I played but Im not convinced that this raise is correct against 3 limpers. Is this standard?


Pre-flop
ischan limps in mp3 64/9/1.3, stevejpa calls, JHLEE111 calls in cutoff, sb folds, Hero raises in BB with k-10c.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you know the first limper's name? ischan doesn't come up in my pokertracker and I'm very curious why i limped/what I limped with instead of isolating him....Is there any hand that a limp behind would be correct?

edit: I'm stevejpa in case that wasn't obvious...and edited to make more sense.

/hijack

Guess I may as well answer the original question too. I would automatcally check in the bb in this spot but thinking more about it, raise is probably fine as long as you don't auto-continuation bet.

Steve

[doodle2]

This is about a lot more than preflop equity. Raising here makes the hand play out in a completely different, and very favorable, way. It should allow you to get heads up with the donator at the table post flop in a lot more situations, since it seems reasonable to asume that the other two are going to be much more likely to give up if they miss once you put in a pfr.

In fact, I would be even more inclined to do it against three mediocre limpers who are going to be able to release if they whiff. Here, youve got one guy who is probably going to stay with you even if he competely misses and youre OOP. Against super l/p donks, i really would rather do this on the button.

i;m running out the door, so i hope that doesnt sound like giberish.

doodle