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View Full Version : -22- AK in lvl 3 vs 2 min-raises and a caller.


proell
10-21-2005, 01:26 PM
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1975)
BB (t1810)
UTG (t955)
MP (t800)
CO (t1325)
Button (t1135)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t100</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to t150</font>, Button calls t150, <font color="#666666">Hero?...</font>


Do I even get involved?
I was 10-tabling and I felt uncomfortable with the situation so I just folded.
I felt that the UTG min-raise is often enough a monster to make folding OK, but I'm not so sure. Thoughts?

zambonidrivr
10-21-2005, 01:43 PM
i fold this. pushing is acceptable.
imo, calling is the worst option

Scuba Chuck
10-21-2005, 01:55 PM
[ QUOTE ]
i fold this. pushing is acceptable.
imo, calling is the worst option

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, did you even consider the size of his stack before you made this statement?

Percussion
10-21-2005, 01:59 PM
seriously i fold this NEVER

You really think that a standard raise and two callers has KK+?

you have 1.1k in your stack, there is 450$ in the pot, this is a PERFECT time to shove. Even if you get called by TT its +EV Because of the dead money in the pot. I can never see how folding this here can be good...

zambonidrivr
10-21-2005, 02:00 PM
1975 is not exactly dominating. utg min raising with a marginal stack is concerning... then being re-raised is enough for me to drop AK. I would rather push any 2 than put myself at risk for my the majority of my stack in this situation.... expecially when blinds are still 50

mike28
10-21-2005, 02:50 PM
UTG minraise...

min-reraise...

button just calls?

I think I dump AK here as well. Talked with Newt about a hand very smiliar to this.

wuwei
10-21-2005, 02:54 PM
[ QUOTE ]

Do I even get involved?

[/ QUOTE ]

Negative, ghost rider. The pattern is full.

Scuba Chuck
10-21-2005, 03:04 PM
[ QUOTE ]
1975 is not exactly dominating. utg min raising with a marginal stack is concerning... then being re-raised is enough for me to drop AK. I would rather push any 2 than put myself at risk for my the majority of my stack in this situation.... expecially when blinds are still 50

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's how I think about this. UTG min-raises, he probably has a hand he doesn't know what to do with, like 77. CO raises to 150. This move accomplishes one thing more than another, it has somewhat of a blocking effect on the remaining players, meaning they now need to call 150, not 100 to play. Certainly, AA isn't playing this way. Button cold calls. I essentially see a bunch of above average, but not premium, hands in this pot.

I don't know how folding here is any good. I'm not worried about the button nor the CO. And of course, there's always some small level of concern from the PFR, but he may be worried about the players acting behind him. I think pushing here is the best option, and calling is ok. I'd be wary of a coordinated flop, but if it's K-rag-rag, you're good to move. But if it's AJ9, KJT, AQT, AND two tone, I'd be a little more cautious before committing the rest of my stack.

pooh74
10-21-2005, 03:11 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i fold this. pushing is acceptable.
imo, calling is the worst option

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, did you even consider the size of his stack before you made this statement?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think calling here is bad too...put our Hero one position to his right and calling is fine. I'd push this more often than folding it actually...

learn to stop seeing every minraise as a monster...they RARELY are. (see Scuba's post below)

zambonidrivr
10-21-2005, 03:17 PM
utg min raise can mean a wide variety of things (agree with scuba). i dissagree that someone playing AA would simply call form MP, but thats just me. There is a lot of action in front there. Blinds are at 50, and you have built up a nice stack... while you have major FE and perhaps the best hand, I am not moving in here. Part of consistanly winning SNG's IMO is avoiding situations like this.

DDH
10-21-2005, 03:21 PM
I would push or fold, it would depend on how the players had been playing, and if I had any read on them. The actions before me are just eff'd up enough that you might be ahead, you might be way behind. Not from the UTG min-raise, but I don't like the CO's min-raise of the min-raise. That could mean a lot of things. Could be an AQ that he doesn't feel too confident about, or it could be KK that he trying to induce more callers with. Depends on what he's done previously, but I would lean towards pushing over them all.

wuwei
10-21-2005, 03:31 PM
I think our folding equity on a push is pretty slim. Seems like someone is going to look us up.

I'm concerned about how many of our cards are still live after a raise, reraise, and a cold caller. 1 dead card makes us 40:60 v. utg's 77, and 2 dead cards makes it more like 35:65.

It's level 3, I'm comfortable sitting back with a nice stack and gaining equity while they tangle.

I don't think calling is a bad thing, although I would feel better about it if I was closing the action.

Shillx
10-21-2005, 03:37 PM
I would move in personally since I probably have a tighter image then most on here, and making plays like this is how I tend to get a lot of chips. Anyone who is paying attention to how you play is going to fold hands that you want to fold here, and anyone who is donking around is just as likely to call with AT as 88. I think it is a win/win situation personally since you will probably be a 50/50 shot or better when called (plus all the dead money). With the way your stack matches up, you can better afford to get in there and gamble since losing this pot doesn't knock you out. Your effective stack is just too small to fold AK here IMO.

Brad

Scuba Chuck
10-21-2005, 03:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I think our folding equity on a push is pretty slim. Seems like someone is going to look us up.

I'm concerned about how many of our cards are still live after a raise, reraise, and a cold caller. 1 dead card makes us 40:60 v. utg's 77, and 2 dead cards makes it more like 35:65.

It's level 3, I'm comfortable sitting back with a nice stack and gaining equity while they tangle.

I don't think calling is a bad thing, although I would feel better about it if I was closing the action.

[/ QUOTE ]

B, I think I disagree on the FE part. The only hand that is likely to call is the PFR. And I think most of the time they're scared to call with their 7s because there's 2 yet to act behind.

Anyhow, let's say you're a 40/60 dog against 7s, how much folding equity do you need to make this +EV?

Bigwig
10-21-2005, 04:00 PM
I call.

bluefeet
10-21-2005, 04:11 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pushing isn't bad, but not being in the moment I feel no reason to race against TT-JJ. The UTG min could be just about anything under the sun really. A monster? Eh...maybe.

The downside to calling IMO would just be the fact that you could have an Ace or two missing from the deck. BB or UTG pushing behind PF sucks too, but...meh.

But with 1 getting me 4.75, I'm seeing a flop -- check/call-pushing ANY A or K (if one has A-caseA/K-caseK so be it).

Your stack is plenty healthy to call, even with the likely check-fold coming.

Bigwig
10-21-2005, 04:16 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pushing isn't bad, but not being in the moment I feel no reason to race against TT-JJ. The UTG min could be just about anything under the sun really. A monster? Eh...maybe.

The downside to calling IMO would just be the fact that you could have an Ace or two missing from the deck. BB or UTG pushing behind PF sucks too, but...meh.

But with 1 getting me 4.75, I'm seeing a flop -- check/call-pushing ANY A or K (if one has A-caseA/K-caseK so be it).

Your stack is plenty healthy to call, even with the likely check-fold coming.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, these are more or less my thoughts. I'm simply too lazy to type them. I wouldn't worry about missing As and Ks, however. That's more of a concern when I'm making a decision for all my chips.

kyro
10-21-2005, 04:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Certainly, AA isn't playing this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well somebody's a wishful thinker.