Good/Bad fold? (6-max) [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Obliky

10-21-2005, 12:54 PM

I felt weak/tight folding in this large pot..

CO is 60/10/0.7 and the last time he 3-bet me he had QQ
Button is the resident table coach and is 42/23/3.2
BB is fish-tastic at 87/0/0.75 after a small no of hands

Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12.40 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button raises, BB calls, Hero calls, CO calls.

Turn: (10.20 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
BB bets, Hero folds.

If you think i should have called...what outs do you think i have?

TripleH68

10-21-2005, 12:59 PM

You are drawing dead to a set and a str8.
You also stand to lose the pot to a str8 that hits on the river.
It is also quite possible that CO is holding an overpair to your tens.

That said, I weakly endorse your fold.

gharp

10-21-2005, 12:59 PM

I'm gonna go with bad fold. The board's a bit coordinated, but I don't think you have to believe yet that anyone's got more than 2 pair. You've got outs (5+) to beat (or tie) with that.

I'm not sure that I care for the flop bet either...

tyler_cracker

10-21-2005, 01:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm gonna go with bad fold. The board's a bit coordinated, but I don't think you have to believe yet that anyone's got more than 2 pair. You've got outs (5+) to beat (or tie) with that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. The turn only completed a straight for someone holding 64 ("me and your wife" flopped it). BB is a fish, so the donkbet could mean anything.

Since we're going to stick around, we should raise, because it's better than calling.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure that I care for the flop bet either...

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not? Bet out and hopefully CO will help protect our hand. We're in bad position to check-raise, and our hand is quite vulnerable. What's your alternative plan?

lautzutao

10-21-2005, 01:11 PM

NH

EDIT: except for the flop. I woulda 3-bet that.

gharp

10-21-2005, 01:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure that I care for the flop bet either...

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not? Bet out and hopefully CO will help protect our hand. We're in bad position to check-raise, and our hand is quite vulnerable. What's your alternative plan?

[/ QUOTE ]
Well this is one of those situations where unless you know that CO (with his 0.7 aggression) will raise with unimproved overcards, then you're only getting "help" from him when he has a better hand. I'm not sure what the best way to play it is, but in these situations I'll usually check, see what happens, and re-evaluate when it comes back around.

lautzutao

10-21-2005, 01:18 PM

Problem here is you got 2 players behind you that could have hands. CO COULD be trapping with an overpair. Button could have 2pair or something better. And you gotta wonder what the heck BB is donking with here...I gotta go with a fold.

TripleH68

10-21-2005, 01:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The turn only completed a straight for someone holding 64 ("me and your wife" flopped it).

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget the player's hand.

tyler_cracker

10-21-2005, 01:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Why not? Bet out and hopefully CO will help protect our hand. We're in bad position to check-raise, and our hand is quite vulnerable. What's your alternative plan?

[/ QUOTE ]
Well this is one of those situations where unless you know that CO (with his 0.7 aggression) will raise with unimproved overcards, then you're only getting "help" from him when he has a better hand. I'm not sure what the best way to play it is, but in these situations I'll usually check, see what happens, and re-evaluate when it comes back around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, but what if he checks behind with unimproved overs? Admittedly, most preflop 3-betters aren't checking when it's checked to them here, but a free card would suck in this big pot with a draw-heavy board.

Also, the pot is plenty big to draw to our 5-outer, and we would like for goofy gutshots to fold.

xenthebrain

10-21-2005, 01:24 PM

I think you have good chances of being ahead.
AF of 0.75 doesn't mean that he never bets anything.
He plays 90% of his hands, its still quite a bit of betting.

gharp

10-21-2005, 01:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Problem here is you got 2 players behind you that could have hands. CO COULD be trapping with an overpair. Button could have 2pair or something better. And you gotta wonder what the heck BB is donking with here...I gotta go with a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm worried about the other players behind me, but I haven't seen enough yet to even be convinced that they've got me beat. And you're considering all the worst case scenarios, so I'll consider the best cases. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Button's stats looks pretty aggressive so I'm not really worried about him. He could easily have something like 99 or JT. CO, so far, just looks like he has unimproved overcards. He could have trapped the whole field for an extra bet on the flop and he passed.

We're getting > 10:1 so I'm calling here and seeing what happens. I've got good relative position to see what all three players do before I have to make another decision.

tyler_cracker

10-21-2005, 01:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The turn only completed a straight for someone holding 64 ("me and your wife" flopped it).

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget the player's hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what "the player's hand" is, but it did not make a straight on the turn. Is it J9? If so, i do not see why.

The top google hit for "the player's hand" is the amazon listing for the revised AD&D Player's Handbook. Nerds all over 2+2 rejoice (hooray).

Finally, i just want to announce that i had an opportunity to use the phrase "flop the joint" and i failed to do so. Boo to me.

/hijack

lautzutao

10-21-2005, 01:35 PM

I'm not implying that BB has us beat. I'm saying BB "could" have us beat. Plus we have to deal with everyone behind us that seemed interested with this hand. If OP had reraised this he possibly wouldn't be in this jam /images/graemlins/frown.gif If CO raises up here after us it's gonna suck.

I guess a raise here could work to try to push out the rest of the field, but if it's raised behind us...it just ends up being spew. Haha, I know this is such a weak thought because we have top pair and the pot is SO big at this spot but...

Obliky

10-21-2005, 01:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]

except for the flop. I woulda 3-bet that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hadnt even considered 3-betting this flop (and im plently aggro PF), could you give me your reasoning behind a 3-bet plz?

lautzutao

10-21-2005, 01:58 PM

Why wouldn't you 3-bet here if you bet out? You more than likely have the best hand here yes? Might as well get as many bets in here while you can. The button wasn't the PF raiser yes? I wouldn't have 3-bet if CO raised...

Reqtech

10-21-2005, 02:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I felt weak/tight folding in this large pot..

CO is 60/10/0.7 and the last time he 3-bet me he had QQ
Button is the resident table coach and is 42/23/3.2
BB is fish-tastic at 87/0/0.75 after a small no of hands

Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12.40 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button raises, BB calls, Hero calls, CO calls.

Turn: (10.20 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
BB bets, Hero folds.

If you think i should have called...what outs do you think i have?

[/ QUOTE ]

Grunching since there's already a page of posts.

Reraising this flop may make the hand easier to play.

I don't necessarily agree with the fold on the turn. If BB really did hit a set or a straight, why would he donk it with so much aggression on the flop? Even the donkiest of donks will go for the checkraise was a monster hand here.

lautzutao

10-21-2005, 02:55 PM

I'm not disagreeing with you, but some players get so excited they just bet out...a guy playing 87% of his hands sounds like that sort of guy /images/graemlins/tongue.gif