Aq equity check on the turn. Call or fold? [Archive]

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Buckmulligan

10-21-2005, 10:54 AM

Party Poker 3.00/6.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

I dont have a lot on UTG, but when you have been involved with 12 of 25 hands, that's not so good. He's only raised one hand preflopp that I've seen at the river and that's Mr. Big (AA). I have even fewer hands on the guy to my right, but he played a KK hand pretty exceptionally.

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, 1 folds, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, 4 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (12.33 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG raises, MP1 calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

To those of you arguing a raise here on the flop, I just don't agree at all. I don't see any hands that I beat here betting into me after I 3 bet preflop.

Turn: (10.17 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, MP1 calls, Hero?

Do you think I should be calling here to see a river? I'm drawing dead versus a potential UTG set or A8 and virtually dead against MP1 AK, KK. How clean are my outs here and what % of this pot do I own if I call?

Final Pot: 16.17 BB.

MrWookie47

10-21-2005, 10:59 AM

I think this is a pretty standard fold.

Nick Royale

10-21-2005, 11:02 AM

You're not grawing dead against A8, but I think you should fold.

FlopMe

10-21-2005, 11:02 AM

I've always given myself 3 outs here and needed 14-1 to call, in other words I always fold.

Reqtech

10-21-2005, 11:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]

To those of you arguing a raise here on the flop, I just don't agree at all. I don't see any hands that I beat here betting into me after I 3 bet preflop.

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Raising the flop isn't to get MP1 to fold. It's to get BB and UTG to fold. Plus you can take a free card if it is checked back to you on the turn since you have postion.

Which is why I like raising the flop here.

Buckmulligan

10-21-2005, 11:18 AM

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I think this is a pretty standard fold.

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It's only really standard if we are sure that we can't win if we draw to an ace or a queen, which may or may not be the case. Look at the hand again, wookie. If we can award ourselves 3+ outs, It's an obvious call, 3 outs is close.

El Ishmael

10-21-2005, 11:22 AM

Flop is pretty thin. I can find a fold there often.

deception5

10-21-2005, 12:14 PM

Turn is about as clear a fold as you can get imo. This board is terrible and there's a good chance you could improve and still lose. UTG liked it enough to check/raise a pfr + pf3-bettor (which usually means a set, 2 pair, 66, 99, or 98). MP likely has overcards as well - meaning there's likely to be at least 1 less ace out there. Fold, see what gets showndown and adjust your next hand against these guys if necessary.

DCWildcat

10-21-2005, 12:19 PM

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Flop is pretty thin. I can find a fold there often.

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Getting 13 to 1 without a PF raiser behind you? That's quite weak-tight.

I like a turn fold. Otherwise, NH

bozlax

10-21-2005, 12:44 PM

Preflop: I don't 3-bet AQo against unknowns. I would much rather call, here, and use my position with respect to the PFR to protect on the flop.

Even without the 3-bet preflop the pot's pretty big on the flop, but I'm pretty convinced that I'm drawing to, at best, 3 outs, and your position is terrible. Without a read that MP1 is a nutbag that might play KQ or KJ aggressively on a small, coordinated flop, I get out there.

El Ishmael

10-21-2005, 01:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flop is pretty thin. I can find a fold there often.

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Getting 13 to 1 without a PF raiser behind you? That's quite weak-tight.

I like a turn fold. Otherwise, NH

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You're not closing the action and the board is absolutely terrible. Getting 13:1 makes it close but I still think I would fold.