Is playing with friends plus or minus ev?

[darydarling]

I brought this up in our Wednesday Group meeting here in Vegas and it became an interesting debate.

It deviated into a discussion of softplaying friends *which I never try to do* but that was not the reason I brought up the question.

Okay here is my personal answer and take it for what it's worth and I would be interested in hearing yours.

For me personally I have been finding lately that playing with friends is -ev.

Why?

Two reasons.

#1 Tilt factor is magnified when friends are around.
I think the reason for this is because after a "bad beat," instead of just quietly sitting back and rethinking the hand for a few minutes and then shaking it off and getting back into the game what happens is you discuuss the hand with the friend.

I am not talking about loudly, but quietly because they are sitting to my left or right. This seems to stoke the fire if you will, and if they have their own bad beats going on stoke's theirs.

Misery does love company.

#2 My play is affected to some degree.
Once again this has nothing to do with soft playing, however when I'm getting ready to play a hand some doubt can and at time does creep in.
I start to ask myself instead of why am I playing it this way and what is my strategy on the flop, turn etc. I begin to ask myself "oh my what will so and so think if they see me play this hand here and it doesn't work out the way I need it to."

The play may not necessarily be questionable, but the self doubt and fear that I may donk it up in front of a friend may make me misplay the hand after the flop and so on.

My solution is that I am going to limit how often I play with friends, even though at times it would be nice to have a buddy to chat with while grinding it out for 8+ hours.

Just my thoughts.

[Howard Burroughs]

Hi Cary (Dary),

I've been doing a lot of thinking about this lately too.


I often have friends call me and ask where I'm playing tonight. They often want to drink some beers, play some poker and hang with Johnny Tight. Which is cool.

But..... when they start running bad, it's often a bad thing to watch. Some of my friends are real hot heads at the table.



Another thing that drives me crazy, is when my poker friends talk about the play of hands at the table (ie, the proper way to play). Like Muppets want to hear that!


I too have concluded that I'll drink beer with friends, etc, but......Playing poker with friends lately has been a B!@#$
YMMV.



All the Best,

Howard

[Goodnews]

first, don't play with friends at a b&m, second play with friends if and only if all of you are friends, here you can dick around and get all those donk tendencies out.

in fact, all my friends play poker competitively and we all follow the major rules. especially table selection. so unless there is some huge donkey that has a huge stack and is just blowing his money away for kicks, i will not sit at a table with them. granted they are probably sitting at a good table because i know they have good table selection but it is bad table selection for me, simply because i know there is at least one solid player there.

on another note, when we all sit together, we don't play for alot, and in fact it turns into one messed up drinking game (details below). but we all take this opportunity to dick around and try to make the best play.

goodnews' sitngo drunkeness

buy in: nothing really, make sure you have a good amount of hard liquor

basically, when a person gets knocked out, they take a shot. but here is the catch, everyone eliminated must take a shot when another person gets eliminated. so in this case, if it were a 10 man game, and i get knocked out i would have a shot, and when the next person gets knocked out, they take a shot also. so in the end the frist person that gets knocked out take 9 shots.

its alot of fun when you want to get a buddy plastered (like they did to me), and knock him out first, and then proceed to lose on opurpose, because of the enjoyment of seeing 10th place squirm as another shot is poured. yes, we're all alcoholics with livers of steel.

[Mr. Curious]

I think the answer to your question is the answer to every poker question: It Depends /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I think that it really just comes down to the type of person that you are.

Since I am a social person and enjoy talking to my friends, I have a very hard time playing my A game because I am focused on the more enjoyable aspects of the situation. I would much prefer to play a $2/4 or $3/6 game with them where I can screw around and do silly things like playing in the dark, live straddles, etc. and super-LAG it if I need to blow off steam.

Perhaps if someone is more of an introvert, then they can play cut throat with their friends because they don't socialize anyways and talking strategy quietly with each other may give them a leg up on others (improved reads, etc.).

[ThaHero]

I played with friends/family for the first time this past Friday night. Left the game +130. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I recall a quote, can't remember who, but they said something to the effect of not being afraid to bust their own grandmother.

I dunno if you are talking +/- EV in terms of the friendship or in terms of winrates and poker.

Depending on how seriously you guys are taking the game, it could be -ev. If you bust your friend and take all his money, if he goes on tilt and punches you or says some things he doesn't mean, it could be -ev.

If all you guys take the game very seriously, study, etc., then in poker terms it would be -ev as well since you will basically be playing at a table full of sharks.

So, it depends on what type of game you're in and what you are trying to accomplish.

[Howard Burroughs]

"can't remember who..."

1982 champ Jack Straus.

[ QUOTE ]
Howard Burroughs
addict

Reged: Oct 22 2002
Posts: 582

[/ QUOTE ]

Get some sleep, bro.

[ QUOTE ]
first, don't play with friends at a b&m, second play with friends if and only if all of you are friends, here you can dick around and get all those donk tendencies out.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is sage wisdom. Its the age old "don't mix business with pleasure" axiom.

A great example I saw of this was last time I was in Vegas - these two buddies sit down next to each other and start playing. First off, they were far more interested in impressing the other with their play than the rest of us. Second, they got into a lot of trouble with the dealer because they kept talking to each other about their hands. One time, one guy told his buddy that he had a flush - problem was there was still another person in the hand - that got the one guy booted.

I play a weekly game with my buddies and it is the only time when I feel like I can loosen up a bit - I tend to bluff a lot and just have fun with it (the fact that we smoke weed at the game also has an impact).

I'll take this opportunity to share my bad beat story from last night

I am in the BB ($1) with 86o. UTG raises $1. One caller and I call.

Flop comes 457r giving me a straight. I decide to slowplay it and UTG bets $2. Other player folds and I call. Turn is a 4. UTG bets $5 - the maximum bet in our game - and I raise him $5. He thinks about it for a while and calls. River is a 7. I check. He bets $5 I call and he turns over K7o for a full house.

[Jeffage]

I just have an agreeement with my friends. At the table, play each other like we would anybody else - as hard as possible. No hard feelings have ever developed between us. It's a game.

Jeff

I'll play my friends as hard as anybody else, but just having them at the table affects how I play the other players. I often get distracted by a friend sitting close to me. Generally, I'll sit across the table from any friend (if possible) in order reduce both conversation and the liklihood of being in a pot with him or her.

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
I just have an agreeement with my friends. At the table, play each other like we would anybody else - as hard as possible. No hard feelings have ever developed between us. It's a game.


[/ QUOTE ]
when i play with mine we do the same. i just don't know how good of a person i am to have as a poker buddy b/c i am at heart one of the most competitive and cutthroat people you will ever meet.

my family plays a game every sunday and during the week sometimes and they will get mad at me at times cause when i play i am very aggro and it can upset people that are there just to play. so since its just my gf and i over with my family for dinner and its an after-dinnner poker game i have toned it down since it's like a $10 buy in.

everything i have ever done in my life has been as hard as i could or i haven't done it, but i realized that sometimes you just need to take your foot off the gas when it comes to the people you love (family).