View Full Version : Donked after Steal Attempt...lost
TheHammer24
10-21-2005, 01:08 AM
I'm playing 2/4 at Poker Room, my first orbit ever on the site.
I'm on the button wtih Q /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif
Folded to me I raise, sb folds, BB (Unknown) Calls
Flop 4.5 SB
K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
<font color="red"> Villian Bets, </font>Hero...
hobbsmann
10-21-2005, 01:15 AM
I think it is close between calling and raising most turns and just raising the flop.
Borodog
10-21-2005, 01:16 AM
You can probably peel one here if you like on the chance that BB will check the turn. You may have overs to 2nd or 3rd pair, plus gutshot, plus BDFD.
But I also think just folding is probably fine. Pot is small, and you really are only going to know where you are if you hit one of 4 outs.
TheHammer24
10-21-2005, 01:19 AM
I think effective odds are terrible here. Sure he may have 9X or 66, but I'm still behind and I have to call 2.5 BB (assuming a call down which is probably incorrect). That is 3.5:2.5
baronzeus
10-21-2005, 05:35 AM
its bullshit. almost never a K. i raise.
@bsolute_luck
10-21-2005, 08:00 AM
i'd rather just call. it's doubtful you'll get a free card if not 3-bet here and he's not folding an 8 or 9 HU (obviously not read based), but we have the BDFD, possible 6 outs for OCs, and a gutshot for a peel.
PTjvs
10-21-2005, 08:21 AM
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its bullshit. almost never a K. i raise.
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I agree that it's almost never a K. This is usually 2nd/3rd pair or a draw, but we are still often behind, and players at this level are taking 2nd/3rd pair to showdown. What's your plan after the turn raise?
jvs
you have 10 outs. raise and bet the turn. when he bets into you like this, he is weak.
Nick Royale
10-21-2005, 09:02 AM
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its bullshit. almost never a K. i raise.
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I agree that it's almost never a K. This is usually 2nd/3rd pair or a draw, but we are still often behind, and players at this level are taking 2nd/3rd pair to showdown. What's your plan after the turn raise?
jvs
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I raise counting on having at least 7 out on average. Only a read could make me fold and I'm as good as never calling. After getting called on the flop I bet the turn for a free sd.
EDIT: if I get 3-betting on the flop I'm calling and folding the turn UI. If I get check/raised on the turn I fold.
Solid_p
10-21-2005, 10:03 AM
I would raise and take a free card. I'm calling a river Q/T and raising a J (duh!).
TheHammer24
10-21-2005, 11:11 AM
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you have 10 outs. raise and bet the turn. when he bets into you like this, he is weak.
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I have way less than ten outs
Chris Daddy Cool
10-21-2005, 11:22 AM
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you have 10 outs. raise and bet the turn. when he bets into you like this, he is weak.
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just as a note, i often lead the flop with my monsters just as much as i checkraise raise them, if not more.
spoohunter
10-21-2005, 11:22 AM
Call. Don't spew bets into this small pot. He is not going to fold here.
Rootabager
10-21-2005, 12:03 PM
He's not going toi fold. I see people do this with hands like 77 for some reason that I dont understand. I take one off and fold to turn.
10 outs = 3 Q's
3 T's
4 gut shot
plus a backdoor flush draw.
Grifter
10-21-2005, 01:07 PM
In my Pokerroom experience, people bet/3-bet the flop against a steal a hell of a lot, especially on a board like this, and often with nothing/close to nothing. I think the villian is thinking (rightly) that you're weak since you were on a steal. That being said it is hard to put him on a hand. probably call flop and bet if checked to on the turn. If bet into UI on the turn, reevaluate, but probably drop it.
Borodog
10-21-2005, 01:29 PM
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10 outs = 3 Q's
3 T's
4 gut shot
plus a backdoor flush draw.
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Your overcards are much devalued because roughly 1/3 the time your opponent actually does have a pair, he has a King. Furthermore, You could be reverse dominated on the Q or T. I'd say you have roughly 7 outs, including the BDFD. Peel one and hope he checks the turn if you miss.
TheHammer24
10-21-2005, 02:02 PM
I just folded. I think it's close between that and peeling and folding turn UI. I think a raise is bad unless you are fairly confident you can see the river for free. The pot is really small and showing down this hand is pretty expensive relative to the size of the pot.
mtdoak
10-21-2005, 02:35 PM
Anyone like raising here and betting any /images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q, T, J (obviously) on the turn?. I think he can lead here with a wide range of hands, alot of which you have several outs against. JT is one, something like A /images/graemlins/heart.gif 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif is another.
Borodog
10-21-2005, 02:41 PM
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Anyone like raising here and betting any /images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q, T, J (obviously) on the turn?. I think he can lead here with a wide range of hands, alot of which you have several outs against. JT is one, something like A /images/graemlins/heart.gif 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif is another.
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Why are you going to war with a marginal hand with little UISD value in a small pot? If you can't show me a calculation that shows this to be +EV, it's not worth the variance.
baronzeus
10-21-2005, 05:36 PM
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you have 10 outs. raise and bet the turn. when he bets into you like this, he is weak.
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just as a note, i often lead the flop with my monsters just as much as i checkraise raise them, if not more.
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right, but you arent a 2/4 donkey
lighterjobs
10-21-2005, 05:39 PM
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Just fold.
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