River bet-fold.

[Jeff W]

Villain is 29/13/2.7 over 400 hands.

Hold'em (6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

River: (6.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

[TTChamp]

Without a read that he has tried some crazy river plays in the past, I think you have to fold.

I usually would raise the flop here, and then bet the turn and check the river U/I. Is that a bad line?

[ QUOTE ]
I usually would raise the flop here, and then bet the turn and check the river U/I.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I usually do.

[cartman]

This looks perfect to me. Am I correct to assume that your plan was to just call down unimproved no matter what cards hit the turn and river and bet if checked to?

Thanks,
Cartman

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I correct to assume that your plan was to just call down unimproved no matter what cards hit the turn and river and bet if checked to?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that was the plan.

[waffle]

I like the plan of calling down, betting when checked to. That's what I planned to do as I read the hand.

Villian's river checkraise really suprised me. This seems like such an odd way to play a hand. Can you help me put him on a range? I really don't understand his actions. Rivered set? Weird slowplay with flopped set? I don't get it at all. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[ QUOTE ]
I like the plan of calling down, betting when checked to. That's what I planned to do as I read the hand.

Villian's river checkraise really suprised me. This seems like such an odd way to play a hand. Can you help me put him on a range? I really don't understand his actions. Rivered set? Weird slowplay with flopped set? I don't get it at all. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

If you plan on calling down, why would you not 3-bet the flop? If he caps, you fold. If he leads the turn you fold, if not you bet. If he leads the river you fold, if not check. I think this is the safest line to take.

[Lmn55d]

It's impossible for villain to cap the flop. Even if he could you shouldn't fold because you have 5 outs most of time time.

[ QUOTE ]
It's impossible for villain to cap the flop. Even if he could you shouldn't fold because you have 5 outs most of time time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would calling down be better than raising the flop?

[waffle]

This line is far from safe, especially against the aggressive opponents in Jeff's games.

[college_boy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's impossible for villain to cap the flop. Even if he could you shouldn't fold because you have 5 outs most of time time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would calling down be better than raising the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

He will often bet your hand for you.

[Justin A]

I hate the fold. This is a desperate bluff too often.

[TStoneMBD]

id call. only hand i could put him on is 9x with a heart that makes an interesting river checkraise. with 3 hearts on the board its hard to imagine that a king checkcalls the turn. 2.7AF definitely makes it reasonable that he checkraised the river with 2 blanks after missing his flush.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
id call. only hand i could put him on is 9x with a heart that makes an interesting river checkraise.

[/ QUOTE ]99 obviously. i like the fold.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
id call. only hand i could put him on is 9x with a heart that makes an interesting river checkraise. with 3 hearts on the board its hard to imagine that a king checkcalls the turn. 2.7AF definitely makes it reasonable that he checkraised the river with 2 blanks after missing his flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

AQ-AT are also possible.

[TStoneMBD]

why do you mention AQ-AT? are these any more likely than 2 blanks because thats what i mentioned.

[TStoneMBD]

i thought about 99 but i didnt consider it as very likely because you would assume he would bet the turn. without consideration to that 99 is of course the most likely hand after the river checkraise.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
i thought about 99 but i didnt consider it as very likely because you would assume he would bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]there is a K on the board.

[TStoneMBD]

do you think im an idiot or something? because thats how it feels like when you talk to me.

This is exactly why you should have checked behind on the river. With that K out there it's unlikely that he's calling your turn bet with only AQ or AJ unless he has a heart. By the river there are very few hands you're ahead of that call a bet.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
do you think im an idiot or something? because thats how it feels like when you talk to me.

[/ QUOTE ]sry... im just saying... you do realize alot of ppl are gonna slow down there w/ 99... just cause you would bet the turn doesnt mean most ppl would... i would often check 99 there... im no baronzues, but i play pretty aggro.

in this hand, it seems pretty effing bizarre for villain to be playing the loser this way... i think the original value bet was iffy, and putting in two on the river with third pair here looks like a bad idea.

[ QUOTE ]
im no baronzues, but i play pretty aggro.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're goddamn right you do.

OP: Raise flop and put between one and three bets in per street. Vary it for game theory, but come on man, you have a pair in a short-handed game. Don't [censored] fold chump. Can't win money by folding.

[gaming_mouse]

Jeff,

I don't see the value in the river bet; can you explain?

It seems to me that much more often you are getting called or raised by a better hand, so that you may as well as save a BB and ck behind. When you add to that the possibility of a river c/r bluff -- even though I don't think it's all that likely -- checking becomes even more attractive.

gm

[aslowjoe]

I guess the question here is what does villan think of you?
Have you folded to him in this way before? Does he think that you not raising the flop means you missed because he has no reason to think that a 3 or a 9 would help you.

He doesn't have a King. Flush would CR the turn. PP 88 and up would play more aggresive.

Low PP
A set of Kings
Complete bluff
I would call down because it was close and I would have info in the future.
A set of kings might play this way.

[TTChamp]

[ QUOTE ]
This line is far from safe, especially against the aggressive opponents in Jeff's games.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this quote is describing the raise flop, bet turn, check river line. Why is this line dangerous?

At this limit do people play so aggro that opponents will 3 bet this flop and lead the turn with high card? I have to believe that if he 3 bets this flop then we are beat and can confidently fold we he leads the turn.

I do see some danger in the turn. I could see him raising the turn with a hand we beat if he picked up a strong draw.

Is the danger in this lne on the turn because given this flop I can't see this line being risky.

[Danenania]

Perfecto.