Coming in from the Irc world

[cnfuzzd]

Some of us were discussing this, and i thought it was semi-interesting.

Decent 6 max game. Sb is a nutty lag. Two posters. Im UTG, and look down to see QTs, i .....?

peace

john nickle

[wowacedude]

what channel?

[cnfuzzd]

#sstakes on efnet

peace

john nickle

[Stefan_K]

open raise if it's not a to thoguh table

[Danenania]

I'm thinking limp and let the SB raise for us for value, giving us good relative position postflop. Depends on exactly how nutty he is though. Either limp or raise.

[Stefan_K]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm thinking limp and let the SB raise for us for value, giving us good relative position postflop. Depends on exactly how nutty he is though. Either limp or raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
maybee i dont know what nutty lagg is but i dont mind to rais and get 3beted by him either

[Danenania]

The trouble with that scenario is it makes it almost impossible for us to protect a vulnerable hand postflop.

[Stefan_K]

maybee true, the main thing that i'm considering is just that the 2 posters aren't likly to have much of a hand, and the superlags hand probebly isn't that great either, so building a big pot against these guys sounds good

[cnfuzzd]

sb read isnt probably strong enough to think he will auto 3bet here....

peace john nickle

[brazilio]

I said limp, but I'm still not sure one way or the other. If we raise even if SB doesn't 3-bet the pot's going to be large postflop.

[Stefan_K]

[ QUOTE ]
sb read isnt probably strong enough to think he will auto 3bet here....

peace john nickle

[/ QUOTE ]
at my first post i didn't understand that he would rais if we limped just that he might limp and that the bb would therefore often call. If we limp and the lag aswell then the posters get in for free, wich i dont like... Anyway i may be wrong, cos i'm not sure how it would affect the postflop play, but i think we have an eage and i think would be +ev to raise

[SomethingClever]

Would limp/reraise be absolutely absurd? Cause it sounds kind of sexy.

[Stefan_K]

[ QUOTE ]
Would limp/reraise be absolutely absurd? Cause it sounds kind of sexy.

[/ QUOTE ]
i like the idée

[Drontier]

This was actually my first thought. But do we really want to do this against a LAG and posters(im guessing very loose).

[Catt]

This might just be a spot where I'd openlimp.

[cnfuzzd]

ugh

i meant the read on the sb isnt strong enough to say that he would auto raise/3bet.

the lrr would def. be really sexy though.

peace

john nickle

[Drontier]

[ QUOTE ]
This might just be a spot where I'd openlimp.

[/ QUOTE ]

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
This was actually my first thought. But do we really want to do this against a LAG and posters(im guessing very loose).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I like it against a LAG who raises any two, and posters who are playing any two.

Ideally, the posters check, the SB raises, you 3-bet, the posters fold and you get HU with the maniac.

But since the SB can't be counted on to do this (not to mention, the second poster should raise the first time around if he has a clue), it's probably not a viable line.

[donger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This was actually my first thought. But do we really want to do this against a LAG and posters(im guessing very loose).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I like it against a LAG who raises any two, and posters who are playing any two.

Ideally, the posters check, the SB raises, you 3-bet, the posters fold and you get HU with the maniac.

But since the SB can't be counted on to do this (not to mention, the second poster should raise the first time around if he has a clue), it's probably not a viable line.

[/ QUOTE ]

I played this hand. You are making a false assumption. The posters will fold. They posted in a freaking 6max game. It will take dynamite to get them out of the pot.

I just called. The LAG at the table was a 30/27 type who loved to open-raise, but didn't have a death-wish or anything. I limped expecting a limped pot most times. I planned just to call if the LAG raised because it would indicate a reasonable holding on his part. Also, a three-bet would fold the posters just about never.

I also have more leverage and a smaller pot if I do connect with the flop and want to pop the flop or turn to drive out the posters. If I bloat the pot by three betting, they will be correct to call two-bets cold on the flop with all sorts of skanky holdings.

[kahntrutahn]

I raise any playable cards with noone entering the pot voluntarily yet with 1 poster, much less 2... for me, easy ass raise

[cnfuzzd]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This was actually my first thought. But do we really want to do this against a LAG and posters(im guessing very loose).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I like it against a LAG who raises any two, and posters who are playing any two.

Ideally, the posters check, the SB raises, you 3-bet, the posters fold and you get HU with the maniac.

But since the SB can't be counted on to do this (not to mention, the second poster should raise the first time around if he has a clue), it's probably not a viable line.

[/ QUOTE ]

I played this hand. You are making a false assumption. The posters will fold. They posted in a freaking 6max game. It will take dynamite to get them out of the pot.

I just called. The LAG at the table was a 30/27 type who loved to open-raise, but didn't have a death-wish or anything. I limped expecting a limped pot most times. I planned just to call if the LAG raised because it would indicate a reasonable holding on his part. Also, a three-bet would fold the posters just about never.

I also have more leverage and a smaller pot if I do connect with the flop and want to pop the flop or turn to drive out the posters. If I bloat the pot by three betting, they will be correct to call two-bets cold on the flop with all sorts of skanky holdings.

[/ QUOTE ]


are you guessing about your equity here, or have you ran some numbers. (fwiw, you have a pretty decent equity edge)

peace

john nickle

[SomethingClever]

Well, I did say that the LRR is probably not a viable line, because rarely will everything go according to plan.

I just raise it up. If they fold; great. If they call with awful hands; great.

Yeah, the pot might get big, but your hand plays well in big multiway pots.

Welcome to raisetown, population me.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
I raise any playable cards with noone entering the pot voluntarily yet with 1 poster, much less 2... for me, easy ass raise

[/ QUOTE ]

OOP this is a mistake, generally. Posters call too much.

[beachbum]

[ QUOTE ]
Decent 6 max game. Sb is a nutty lag. Two posters. Im UTG, and look down to see QTs, i .....?

[/ QUOTE ]

...don't fold.

I like limping here. Raising here and getting 3-bet probably gets the BB to fold. I'd rather see a flop with this hand for 2-bets 5 or 6 handed, than for 3-bets 3 or 4 handed.

Also, with a hand like this that does so well multiway postflop I'd rather have the LAG to my left. That way I can c/r a big draw trapping the field for multiple bets. Having him to my right isn't nearly as good. I'm sure I will raise TPGK to protect my hand, but there's a good chance the posters call 2 cold on a Ten high or Queen high flop anyway. Now I'm stuck with a hand that probably has a thin equity edge at this point, and which I probably have to showdown either way since the pot is so freakin big.

[Danenania]

Okay, given the SB's stats I would raise. Your equity edge is super big.

[donger]

What do SB's stats have to do with my equity here? I am UTG, everybody's hand but mine is random.

By saying that SB was aggro but didn't have a death-wish, I was trying to imply that if he threebet me OOP or raised after I had limped, I wouldn't really be liking QTs.

[Danenania]

Right, I was just saying that if he was extremely aggro then I like the postflop position that limping and calling his raise or even limp reraising puts you in much better than raising and calling his 3-bet. Now since I know he will need a reasonable hand to either raise or reraise, I like just raising from the start. We definitely want these posters to pay at least an extra bet one way or another.