Weak - Tight?

[bobhalford]

This hand has been bothering me. Villains are unknown, just sat down. Is this a bad fold? Flop and turn play comments appreciated.

Party Poker 2.00/4.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, MP2 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero folds, MP2 calls.

River: (10.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP2 checks, MP3 checks.

Final Pot: 10.25 BB.

[lighterjobs]

weird hand. I think I would rather cap it preflop because if the flop was all rags you could represent a big pair. I would three-bet the flop to see where I'm at. if it was capped it would be an easy fold on the turn if you are UI.

[Klompy]

I think I go for a check raise on the flop, and then the rest of the hand plays differently, other then that, yeah I think I fold the turn.

I fold preflop.

[mowz]

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I fold preflop.

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Until I have a read I assume a reraise preflop means at least something better than 9s.

I'm check-raising the flop, leading the turn, and folding to a raise.

[toss]

I woulda checked and see what happens on the flop. I don't think your play is weak.

[oxymoron]

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I fold preflop.

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[toss]

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I fold preflop.

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yuck.

[LaramieJC]

I fold this preflop w/no reads on the villains. There is the possibility that orig raiser will cap behind you once you call which puts you in a bad situation. Against a reraise preflop I usually assume that with 99 I am just a slight favorite against AK, AQs or a big dog to a larger overpair. I fold preflop and wait for a better spot.

[Fat Nicky]

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I fold preflop.

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yuck.

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Why yuck?? We are facing a raise and a re-raise from unknowns, and we will be out of positiom for the rest of the hand with crappy relative position to the pre-flop 3-bettor.

[oxymoron]

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I fold preflop.

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yuck.

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You just sat down and have no reads so why play this hand against a three bet? I might play this with reads and I would more than likely cap it if I decide to play to isolate a loose raiser. But when I just sit down at a table I want to get some reads and get a feel for the table before I make these plays.

Edit: spelling...

[toss]

PF we're getting 3.5:1 - 4.5:1. 3:1 is the worst probable scenario should MP2 cap. Its 8.5:1 to flop a set. Don't you think we'll make up that many bets should we flop a set or have our 99 hold up enough times?

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I'm check-raising the flop, leading the turn, and folding to a raise.

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I have the same plan, but maybe this exposes me to a call-down from an overpair or overcards. In this 3-handed pot, a bet from the 3-bettor is very likely, so I think I c/r will work. I want to c/r to put pressure on MP2's overcards. If MP3 3-bets, I call and c/f the turn (because it's a K), expecting a bigger pair or AK, otherwise I lead the lead and fold to raise.

[Solid_p]

I would consider folding this preflop. Reads could change this.

On the flop, a check raise is far better than leading. You will be facing mp2 with 2 bets and you will define your hand better against mp3. Leading this flop, you will be raised plenty by overcards. Turn card is bad, so your fold looks good.

[SeaEagle]

[ QUOTE ]
PF we're getting 3.5:1 - 4.5:1. 3:1 is the worst probable scenario should MP2 cap. Its 8.5:1 to flop a set. Don't you think we'll make up that many bets should we flop a set or have our 99 hold up enough times?

[/ QUOTE ]
Let's say you're just playing for set value. Your odds of making a set and winning are generally estimated to be about 10-1. So you need to earn 14sbs to play for set value. There are already 7 in the pot, so you need to make 3.5BBs the rest of the hand to break even on set value. You'll probably make 3.5BBs on this hand.

If the pot gets capped, you need to make 7BBs postflop. 7BBs is a lot and I doubt you'll get that in a 3-way hand.

I'm also assuming that you break even post flop if you don't make a set. I may be overestimating because 99 UI is really hard to play OOP here, and I'd be surprised if most players didn't actually cost themselves chips post flop.

So, if you assume that the pot gets capped PF about 1/3 of the time, you're going to have to average a little over 4.5BBs in post flop profit when you win to make calling +EV. 4.5BBs is quite a bit but, overall, I'd say the EV difference between folding and calling is just about 0.

[matt hooley]

easy fold to flop action of Hero checks, MP2 bets, MP3 raises?

[toss]

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easy fold to flop action of Hero checks, MP2 bets, MP3 raises?

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Yes.

[ZenMusician]

CC a pf 3-bet + not CR this flop + checking this turn = teh suck

-ZEN

[detruncate]

I'd check the flop and then c/r if MP3 led. I think it's worth putting in another couple bets in a pot this size with an overpair. MP3 might still be on a lot of things, especially given that he's unknown, and we'd probably like MP2 to fold most of the time. I call/fold UI if 3-bet.

I just fold if MP2 leads and MP3 raises after we check the flop.

The way you played it I have no problem with the fold. Unless Villain is a total LAG we're very unlikely to be ahead at this point.

[hellite]

THE HORROR THE HORROR

[newhizzle]

i think you should check/raise the flop, PF is probly close, im not sure whats right there, the way you played it turn fold is probly fine without a read

[bobhalford]

Thanks for all the comments. I did play this badly, but not horribly. As it turns out (I apologize to those who hate results) MP2 was a 48%/20% donk on the war path with 77 and MP1 had AT or somesuch hand (maybe even worse).

I learned that I should probably wait a bit before getting involved with this kind of preflop action without any time at the table. One poster mentioned this and it's good advice.

I also considered a CR on the flop, but mistakenly believed that a bet on the flop might help me define their hands better. I acted too quickly (typical when 3-tabling on a 17 inch where the tables overlap) and didn't checkraise because I was afraid it was going to be 2 bets back to me if I checked (I don't know why I thought this since MP2 was the last one to raise preflop) and then I would have to consider folding on the flop with what could be the best hand. Checkraising in this situation would have been much better because then I could really get a sense of my opponents' holdings. Then I could bet/fold the turn. I wouldn't be surprised if MP2 would have raised me on the turn despite a flop checkraise. He was that loony as it turns out.

I also considered capping preflop, but I wussed out since I didn't have any reads. This also could have changed the way the hand played out.

Again, thx for the comments, much appreciated. The dicussion about the implied odds of hitting a set was also helpful.

[Borodog]

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I fold preflop.

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