you don't have it either, do you b*tch? or... do you?

[mgsimpleton]

bear with me, i'm just just learning this silly game.

i limped because this game was incredibly passive preflop. on flop his call told me mid pair or draw. so is this standard, chip spew, good play, just plain stupid, what?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8.40 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls, BB folds, UTG folds.

Turn: (5.20 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>

yuck. I've been trying similarly clever things. My FPS has led me to a nice 70 BB downswing in my first 2,500 hands of 5/10. It sucks when I make this play and it sucks when you make it, too (unless I'm your opponent.) /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
on flop his call told me mid pair or draw or top pair weak kicker

[/ QUOTE ]

Since when does a passive player raise a turn with mid pair? (I'm assuming he's passive because you said the game was fairly passive and you didn't include any reads on this player.) I just don't see it. Your 3-bet here commits you to showdown even if you miss the flush draw, and I think your king high is good here almost never. I don't see him folding this nearly enough times to make it profitable.

[AllIn3High]

[ QUOTE ]

on flop his call told me mid pair or draw.


[/ QUOTE ]
Or a weak queen or a strong hand waiting to raise on the turn.

[ QUOTE ]

so is this standard, chip spew, good play, just plain stupid, what?


[/ QUOTE ]

Against passive opponents this is spewing, just call the raise and fold the river unimproved. (I might call on the river if I pair up, but that's read dependant)

You'll never get anyone to fold a queen and you're investing far too many chips to fold out a hand you have decent outs to improve against.

There is no need to go into a battle of wills in a small pot against loose and passive opponents.

[mgsimpleton]

ok i said they were passive preflop btw... i'm not saying you guys are wrong since i honestly just want advice never playing limit... but passive preflop is a different world than passive in general.

[ QUOTE ]
ok i said they were passive preflop btw... i'm not saying you guys are wrong since i honestly just want advice never playing limit... but passive preflop is a different world than passive in general.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why you should include reads in your post. We don't know what these players are like other than they are passive preflop. Against a typical player your move in spewing. Include reads if you have a reason to think otherwise.

[Fat Nicky]

Do you have a read? If you don't, this is a terrible play.

[AllIn3High]

[ QUOTE ]
ok i said they were passive preflop btw... i'm not saying you guys are wrong since i honestly just want advice never playing limit... but passive preflop is a different world than passive in general.

[/ QUOTE ]

fair enough, but it's rare to see loose passive donks suddenly spring to life as TAGs postflop.

What I said still stands tho, bottom line is people almost never raise the turn in that spot with a worse hand. So without a stellar read this is spewing.

&lt;disclaimer: over simplified&gt;

The trick to beating small stakes fixed limit isn't trying to push people off hands, it's making a decent to great hand and value betting their pants off and being wary when they show aggression.

You will occasionally meet over-aggressive donks, but you'll know them when you see them, against them you bet and raise with you good to great hands and go to showdown with the rest and let them bet their hopeless draws and ten-high.

&lt;/disclaimer&gt;

You're investing a lot of bets here, when you're most likely behind. People who raise the turn HU in limit are going to showdown most of the time.

What's your screenname?

[MaxPower]

I think the 3 bet on the turn is very bad. No one will ever fold any draw or made hand - this isn't no limit.

If you are going to bluff, the river would be better place, since he might fold an ace high flush draw. I wouldn't recommend it though.

I do like the turn bet though.

The pre-flop limp is fine.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
What's your screenname?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do people still feel this is a clever response? Why did they ever feel it's an appropriate response? Is it because of the anonymoity of the Internet? Would you do this in real life?

Stop it. She came her for help, and that's in general what people are doing. You want to tell someone they played badly? Fine, but do it in a constructive way.

Go check out her reputation in the NL forum.

[MaxPower]

[ QUOTE ]
What's your screenname?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah good idea, sit down when you see her in a no limit game.

[SackUp]

I love the title of your post. hahah

but yeah I would agree that this is pretty much spewing most of the time. I don't think you are pushing enough people off a hand here. SS players call down too much, especially after putting in bets.

Wait to hit your draw and then punish.

[mgsimpleton]

thanks for the responses guys. been a while since i got absolutely reamed for a post about a hand i played, it was kind of fun =)

i posted because in the hand he folded. it didn't seem right though... i think he had a mid pair and decided to live to fight another day. but i think most would call down with a 6 here. some would even call down with A high. so i should just check/call and fold unimproved.

and yes i'm a NL person (thanks guys for sticking up for me, heh) which l eads me to want to bluff too much. i bluff too much in NL too. actually i 'm about to post another hand in which i make a stupid bluff and see if everyone hates it just as much as this one. here i go....

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
i limped because this game was incredibly passive preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]
I never play at tables where I can't limp this preflop.

[mgsimpleton]

ok i was under the impression this limp was questionable UTG + 2... do you often limp sc's like 78s early as well?

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
ok i was under the impression this limp was questionable UTG + 2... do you often limp sc's like 78s early as well?

[/ QUOTE ]
Limping KTs 2nd in 5/10 with a proper tableselection isn't questionable in general IMO. The only option should be to raise. In this same spot 87s is a fold for me as a standard. At a table much looser than usual I start to consider limping.

[PTjvs]

[ QUOTE ]
i limped because this game was incredibly passive preflop. on flop his call told me mid pair or draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most people passive preflop are willing to call down TPMK as well, and they will almost always wait until the turn to pop their flopped set. I sometimes try this with a read, and I'm not sure I'm not spewing even then. w/o a read, this is generally spewing.

jvs