AA gets donkraised

[Ghazban]

Eurobet 1/2 6-max game. The game is pretty meh but all the games are meh in the early afternoon on the skins since the split. I don't know villain other than from about 2 and a half orbits since I sat down where I observed nothing worth mentioning. He hasn't donkraised in that time so I don't know what it means. Effective stacks are $200

UTG folds, Villain limps UTG+1, CO folds, I make it $8 to go on the button with AA, blinds fold, villain calls.

Flop: K93r ($19)

check, check, I bet $15, BB folds, villain raises to $30 (this is a donkraise-- check/minraising a flop bet from the preflop raiser), I call.

Turn K ($79)

He bets $50, I fold.

[vulturesrow]

Easy fold I think. Easy at least sitting here typing. Probably harder against an unknown. A turn lead after a donk raise usually means big hand. Sometimes you'll get donkraised by a guy on a draw but the board is pretty raggedy so I doubt that is the case here.

Fold is good. I think he was testing you with K-Q here. I had almost the identical hand happen to me a couple weeks ago (very similar flop and all). I got donk c/mr'ed and called not really certain what was going on (it seemed obvious to me that I was representing a big hand and he wasn't worried about it). The turn was a blank and he bet the rest of his stack which was just over the pot. I thought about it and finally folded. He showed K-Q and types in the chat, "no bluff, I had it." Whatever. Point is, I've been seeing a lot of these donk m/r with scared top pair hands. So I think one way or the other you're probably beat. And with top pair of kings pairing up, aces are real marginal now. This hand is obviously going to get expensive, so I prefer to just fold.

[Ghazban]

I think the turn fold is pretty obvious as now I can't beat anything but the highly unlikely 93 or weirdly played underpair. I kind of expected people to tell me to fold to the donkraise but I think I see TPGK a lot of the time from those. The real hidden agenda of my post was to get the term "donkraise" into the SSNL lexicon....

As a tangent, let's say that the turn card is a 5, what do you do if:
a) villain leads for 2/3 pot?
b) villain checks?

How about if the turn was a Q-T?

[vulturesrow]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
I kind of expected people to tell me to fold to the donkraise but I think I see TPGK a lot of the time from those.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
The real hidden agenda of my post was to get the term "donkraise" into the SSNL lexicon....


[/ QUOTE ]

I love it.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
a) villain leads for 2/3 pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably call. Much closer than when the king hits.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
villain checks?

[/ QUOTE ]

Check behind and call up to a PSB on the river with a non-scare card. If he checks the river I value bet.



What are your answers?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I kind of expected people to tell me to fold to the donkraise but I think I see TPGK a lot of the time from those.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

[ QUOTE ]
The real hidden agenda of my post was to get the term "donkraise" into the SSNL lexicon....


[/ QUOTE ]

I love it.

[ QUOTE ]
a) villain leads for 2/3 pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably call. Much closer than when the king hits.

[ QUOTE ]
villain checks?

[/ QUOTE ]

Check behind and call up to a PSB on the river with a non-scare card. If he checks the river I value bet.



What are your answers?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. I would only add that the queen is my biggest scare scare, with the jack being second in line. I think a lot of donks will have K-Q in this situation, so I'm praying for no queen to hit. If a queen hits the turn and he leads out for 2/3 the pot or more, I probably fold without a good read.

[Skuzzy]

I think we need a definitive dictionary of donk.

Can we have definitions for these in the FAQ?

Donkbet
Donkpush
Donkraise
Donkfest
Donkathon
Donktastic
Donkarama
Donkified
Donk 'n' Go - (the 5+1 SNG's at Party?)

[wslee00]

why not re-raise his donkraise to 60? If he calls, i'm checking the turn and maybe calling a small river bet.

[Ojo_Rojo]

By reraising, couldnt you scare off something like KJo though?

I think I prefer just calling on the flop and reevaluate (what does that mean anyway?) on a safe looking turn.

Ojo_Rojo

[vulturesrow]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
why not re-raise his donkraise to 60? If he calls, i'm checking the turn and maybe calling a small river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought about this..I dont like it. I think it is borderline chip spewing. A 3 bet is probably going to fold out hands you want to keep in the pot.

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
why not re-raise his donkraise to 60? If he calls, i'm checking the turn and maybe calling a small river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I reraise, I'm telling him I can beat a king and he will fold everything I'm beating and call/reraise with everything I'm not. If I call, he probably bets a king on the turn as well as anything that's beating me so I make more when I'm ahead (though I still lose a bunch when I'm behind).

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
... and reevaluate (what does that mean anyway?) on a safe looking turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my recent experience, it usually means "continue to put money in the pot when I'm behind" but I think that's short term variance.

[teamdonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
I think we need a definitive dictionary of donk.

Can we have definitions for these in the FAQ?

Donkbet
Donkpush
Donkraise
Donkfest
Donkathon
Donktastic
Donkarama
Donkified
Donk 'n' Go - (the 5+1 SNG's at Party?)

[/ QUOTE ]

i feel like the cavemen in those Geico commercials

[ QUOTE ]
Eurobet 1/2 6-max game. The game is pretty meh but all the games are meh in the early afternoon on the skins since the split. I don't know villain other than from about 2 and a half orbits since I sat down where I observed nothing worth mentioning. He hasn't donkraised in that time so I don't know what it means. Effective stacks are $200

UTG folds, Villain limps UTG+1, CO folds, I make it $8 to go on the button with AA, blinds fold, villain calls.

Flop: K93r ($19)

check, check, I bet $15, BB folds, villain raises to $30 (this is a donkraise-- check/minraising a flop bet from the preflop raiser), I call.

Turn K ($79)

He bets $50, I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sucks. On that flop (K9Xr) when someone minraises your AA you are either crushing his AK or crushed by his set of nines. (I think i am going to make a nast fold here and b1tch about it for a while.)

Obviously you must fold the turn, as you are beating nothing.

[Leptyne]

Ever mindful of the theory that you're more likely to win a small pot with AA and lose a big one I'm always looking for a way to avoid losing a big stack until I improve.

A scare card on the turn lets you fold with dignity. A blank puts you on the spot. How are you going to tell the difference between a set and AK when he leads the turn with 2/3 pot and value bets a blank river?

[wslee00]

[ QUOTE ]
A blank puts you on the spot. How are you going to tell the difference between a set and AK when he leads the turn with 2/3 pot and value bets a blank river?

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree - people are saying that you are either WA/WB - but how are you supposed to know the diff w/o making that re-raise? This seems to be a hand where you will win a little or lose a lot. In this situation, I think re-raising to 60 is the way to lose the least if he already has you beat.

[xorbie]

I think you got lucky on the turn.

[Yads]

[ QUOTE ]
Ever mindful of the theory that you're more likely to win a small pot with AA and lose a big one I'm always looking for a way to avoid losing a big stack until I improve.

A scare card on the turn lets you fold with dignity. A blank puts you on the spot. How are you going to tell the difference between a set and AK when he leads the turn with 2/3 pot and value bets a blank river?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm folding to most river bets of reasonable size if a blank comes off the turn and I call. Also opponent dependent. Most players at that level aren't value betting a lone pair on the end.

[FlyingStart]

If villains "Donkraise" puts us to so much trouble, why should we call it a donkraise? If he has a set, how is he gonna extract more from our AA than with the check-miniraise? I he raises big on the flop everyone here is folding right? And if he pots it on flop and turn, how many stays in?

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
If villains "Donkraise" puts us to so much trouble, why should we call it a donkraise? If he has a set, how is he gonna extract more from our AA than with the check-miniraise? I he raises big on the flop everyone here is folding right? And if he pots it on flop and turn, how many stays in?

[/ QUOTE ]

In this hand, a donkraise isn't as bad as it can be in other spots. The donkraise just puts more money in the pot and the donkraiser will have little to no information about whether or not he's ahead; he'll just have bloated the pot out of position with two more streets to play. As a simple example, assume somebody semibluffs a draw and gets donkraised; obviously they're going to be correct to call the donkraise but the donkraiser will have no idea if the bettor was on a draw or betting a made hand or what.