pocket 77, big pot. Fold or go into war on the flop? [Archive]

View Full Version : pocket 77, big pot. Fold or go into war on the flop?

gopnik

10-20-2005, 08:24 AM

table is semi loose, semi aggressive.
Is the preflop call here standard?
What about the flop? Was it +EV here to make a move or too many people for that?

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 raises, Hero calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (10 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, MP2 raises, Hero folds, SB calls, BB 3-bets, MP2 calls, SB calls.

River: (19 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, MP2 calls, SB folds.

Final Pot: 21 BB

10-20-2005, 08:28 AM

I think preflop is kind of thin, as our relative position to the raiser means that it's going to be hard to trap everyone for bets if we do hit our set. The queen kind of worries me on the flop, I think I would just fold.

10-20-2005, 08:36 AM

I don't mind the PF call too much, but I think the flop is a clear fold; you're playing the pocket pair strictly for set value (the PF cold-call after two limpers and a raise). You're either slightly ahead against the field or you're way behind and drawing nearly dead with two more streets to showdown.

10-20-2005, 08:40 AM

*grunch*

Pre-flop: Call is ok with RIF as long as you thought you would have t least 5 opponents seeing the flop (and you did!)

Flop: I'm torn between betting and calling here. I would probably just call.

Turn: /images/graemlins/heart.gif the fold vs. a cold-call.

MATT111

10-20-2005, 10:38 AM

I would have played it the same on every street although I think this might be a situation where you can wait until the turn ro raise/fold. Laying it down on the flop is out of the question imo.

10-20-2005, 10:48 AM

I hate doing stuff like this on the flop. You have 2nd pair with two outs to improve but you hope your raise will tell you something or everyone folds. But it doesn't help much here. If other players call, what draws do they have? What's the preflop raiser packing? His flop behavior indicates AK or possibly JJ,TT,99. Maybe even AA,KK if he's ultra-paranoid. When that other joker bets out (then calls) on the turn, I suspect trip 4's with a low kicker. And now I suspect PFR has a pocket pair. I'm out of there on this turn...yeah, 10BB is pretty big but there's better spots to get your money in. 77 in a 6-way pot is usually not something I choose to go to war with.

jrz1972

10-20-2005, 10:57 AM

This is a very easy fold on the flop. Large field, draw-heavy board, only one clean out if you're behind, and a bunch of cards that will beat you if you're ahead.

bozlax

10-20-2005, 11:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
table is semi loose...

[/ QUOTE ]

6 people seeing the flop at 1/2?! I think you can drop the "semi."

Any read on MP2? Any specific reads on the players behind you? Against relative unknowns you've got great relative position with respect to the pfr to protect your hand if you miss your set postflop, but not to build the pot if you do hit your set. That, combined with the fact that there are only 2 limpers before the raise, turns this into a fold for me against an unknown or reasonable player. It's an isolation 3-bet against a nutbag, though.

Edit: I just noticed that I didn't answer the question. Fold the flop. Oh, and don't include any of the HH after the part you have a question about.

10-20-2005, 11:22 AM

I am not sure I would call pre-flop here...We are first to call the raise and who knows how many people will follow. If Iam playing 77 I want to win a huge pot by hitting a set with lots of people involved.....You have two outs to hit your set and with six players in the pot your gonna have to improve to win this one...your odds are 22.5 to 1 and the pot odds to call this flop are 13 to 1, so I would say this is an easy fold on the flop....even if everyone else called you still wouldnt have odds on the flop to call...
Hades18

10-20-2005, 11:45 AM

(grunching)
pre-flop: since 2 players are already in, and the loose table, call is good
flop: as MP2 was pre-flop raise, I would just fold this flop
turn: looks like we can't play here.