Flopped middle set. Push or wait?

[rannerboy]

This hand took place on Party $50 NL. Sorry for not using the hand converter but I don't have access to my hand history.

My stack is $50. Just arrived at the table so I have no reads on anybody. Villain's stack is almost exactly the same size as mine.

I'm in CO and pick up 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. BB posts $0.5. All fold to me. I raise to $1.5 and button calls. Blinds fold.

Flop comes Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gif4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Pot is $3.75. I bet out $2. Villain raises to $4. I reraise to $10. Villain reraises to $16. I push. Villain folds.

How did I play this? Was it correct to push after his second reraise? The flop contained no major draws so I felt Villain had a pretty strong hand but I couldn't put him on QQ. Should I just have called and waited for the turn to get more money in?

My reasoning before the push was:

1) I have the best hand
2) He has a good hand and might call
3) I would hate to give a cheap card and lose the hand
4) A smaller raise than a push wouldn't make sense

[troymclur]

Yikes. No real draw out there, why would you want him to leave?

The way he played it certainly looks like a strong queen, what turn card are you afraid of?

[2PAUL2]

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1) I have the best hand

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/images/graemlins/cool.gif

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2) He has a good hand and might call

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444, Qx, 88-TT, pure bluff

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3) I would hate to give a cheap card and lose the hand

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think about his hand range an then how many cards your scared of on the turn with this board.

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4) A smaller raise than a push wouldn't make sense

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true but do you see how checkraising all in on the turn will extract more from his range of hands. the way u played the hand even stupid villains should get away from AQ as your line screams AA,KK.

paul

[subzero]

I think you played it fine. When villain put in the last raise, he committed 1/3 of his stack to the hand. I'd push like you did and expect him to call. Villains raises are donkish. This is either a badly played AQ or bluff. He should've gotten out of the hand when you re-raised on the flop.

[rannerboy]

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Yikes. No real draw out there, why would you want him to leave?

The way he played it certainly looks like a strong queen, what turn card are you afraid of?

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This is my problem. Sometimes with my big hands I get weak and don't want to take the slightest risk of getting drawn out on. In this case, if I'm ahead there are really no cards I'm afraid of unless he's got 65 which it sure doesn't look like.

If i just call, should I go for a turn checkraise or just come right out betting again? Is there a bigger chance he'll call a big turn bet than my flop push? The turn card could possibly be a scare card to him... for example a K if he has AQ.

[rannerboy]

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I think you played it fine. When villain put in the last raise, he committed 1/3 of his stack to the hand. I'd push like you did and expect him to call. Villains raises are donkish. This is either a badly played AQ or bluff. He should've gotten out of the hand when you re-raised on the flop.

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If it's a bluff he definitely won't call my push. If he has AQ there is no single turn card I'm afraid of. In both those cases I probably should just call and check to him on the turn hoping for him to take another shot at the pot.

[troymclur]

First it depends on what you just call. If you just call his first re-raise, then you could mask your monster better than if you re-raised and just called his second re-raise. Either way, i'd lead the pot about 1/2 to 2/3's depending on teh turn card. If its a complete blank, and no draw aside from 65 could be made, then just do everything you can to build a pot (smaller raise, like 1/2 or less).

This also doesn't become so much of a problem is you lead the flop a litte harder, then called his first re-raise. These wierd min-raises do little to help you win money because many players see that as a sign of strength while keeping the pot relatively small after alls said and done.

I would have called his 16 buck raise, then lead the flop for about 1/2 pot. You're making him either fold or push, and if he has AQ, he'll probably push.

[rannerboy]

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These wierd min-raises do little to help you win money because many players see that as a sign of strength while keeping the pot relatively small after alls said and done.


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Even if my raises weren't huge they weren't min raises. Villain was the one making the min raises. But yes, as you and another poster stated: I should have bet more on the flop.

[subzero]

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If it's a bluff he definitely won't call my push. If he has AQ there is no single turn card I'm afraid of. In both those cases I probably should just call and check to him on the turn hoping for him to take another shot at the pot.

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I agree. I was just trying to guess his hand. But the way he played it, it sure looked like he had a hand that he wasn't throwing away (maybe bottom set or AA that he wasn't folding). When someone raises me twice on the same street (committing 1/3 of his stack), I expect him to call my push. I'd push now (when I'm the favorite).

[Gugel]

Looks like the villian is drawing very slim (probably dead). I thought I would never say this, but...minraise. Yes that's right, you heard me...MINRAISE to $24.

My reasoning behind this:
By the looks of it, he will call another $8.
Calling another $8 will put a total of 50% of his original stack in the pot.
Bet $12 on the turn and $12 on the river.

[Leptyne]

When you flop a set you're looking to get his stack. As you're aware the key is getting him pot-committed. When I first started my intro to this game I learned that a "standard bet" was a pot-sized bet. You may use 2/3-3/4 on occassion, or half the time, but a pot-sized lead and a min-raise would have him where you want him. If my math is correct the pot is $18.75 when you call. A pot sized bet at the turn actually puts him in the position of if he calls he should push. As long as he calls he's toast. Gently lead him to the edge before you knock him off.

[arod15]

Looks good based on stack size. if the stacks were deeper i would wait to push to a later street....

[rannerboy]

[ QUOTE ]
When you flop a set you're looking to get his stack. As you're aware the key is getting him pot-committed. When I first started my intro to this game I learned that a "standard bet" was a pot-sized bet. You may use 2/3-3/4 on occassion, or half the time, but a pot-sized lead and a min-raise would have him where you want him. If my math is correct the pot is $18.75 when you call. A pot sized bet at the turn actually puts him in the position of if he calls he should push. As long as he calls he's toast. Gently lead him to the edge before you knock him off.

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Yeah, it seems my biggest mistake was the tiny bet on the flop. With a bigger bet I would probably have got him all-in one way or another if he had a decent hand. I think I learned a very valuable lesson by this hand.