A7o

[bobbyi]

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP <font color="green">(49/10/1)</font> calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB <font color="green">(50/17/1.25)</font> calls, MP calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP calls, Hero calls.

River: (7.75 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

[joker122]

the river is easiest - i def. don't overcall here.

i really don't know what to do on the flop or turn. if you raise the flop i suppose you could get 3bet by a draw from BB since he's pretty aggro, so you don't really get the info you want.

i think i raise the turn and take the free show.

[TStoneMBD]

like joker i raise the turn and showdown. there are alot of draws out there that will give up on the river with 2 players in the hand. you might as well gain the bet from them while you can.

river is a good fold

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
like joker i raise the turn and showdown. there are alot of draws out there that will give up on the river with 2 players in the hand. you might as well gain the bet from them while you can.

[/ QUOTE ]
The "let's put the money in on the turn instead of the river" plan can cut both ways though. It may sometimes pick me up an extra bet when the river is a blank, but it could also cost me an exta bet when the river is a bad card, as would have happened here. I was also worried about being three-bet because I would fold, but I could easily be drawing live against two pair and cost myself the pot. But I think maybe I should have raised anyway. The turn was the street where I was really unsure (I feel good about the rest of the hand).

[TStoneMBD]

you make some good points that i really didnt take into account. i was somewhat on the fence on my original post as to whether i raise/call there, but with your new information im leaning towards call.

i think it depends on how often you think youre ahead against the BBs range. i wouldnt even bother approximating your pot equity however because i wouldnt even know how to create a line between when raising and calling is best, although i am sure there is one. maybe someone else would be better with coming up with one.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
I was also worried about being three-bet because I would fold, but I could easily be drawing live against two pair and cost myself the pot

[/ QUOTE ]

he'd have to be 3betting exactly 86 or 83 for it to be correct to call. that's assuming he doesn't 3bet with 1pair, and i don't think he does.

[Poldi]

Is it bad to just call preflop because the BB is so loose and it will be 3way anyways?

[Stefan_K]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it bad to just call preflop because the BB is so loose and it will be 3way anyways?

[/ QUOTE ]
i think so, sb folded and now you have iniativ and possison, + i dont think that mp has a very good hand, and its not 100 that bb calls

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
he'd have to be 3betting exactly 86 or 83 for it to be correct to call.

[/ QUOTE ]
I understand that it is not normally correct to call a three-bet on the turn here; that's why I said that I'm not calling. The point still stands that I have outs against any two pair and raising the turn and taking a free showdown forces me to give up on those outs where the alternative of putting in one bet on the turn and possibly more on the river does not. This line also saves me a bet on a bad river especially because if the river action goes bet-raise in front of me, I have an easy fold.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
he'd have to be 3betting exactly 86 or 83 for it to be correct to call.

[/ QUOTE ]
I understand that it is not normally correct to call a three-bet on the turn here; that's why I said that I'm not calling. The point still stands that I have outs against any two pair and raising the turn and taking a free showdown forces me to give up on those outs where the alternative of putting in one bet on the turn and possibly more on the river does not. This line also saves me a bet on a bad river especially because if the river action goes bet-raise in front of me, I have an easy fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

ah good point. then i think it's damn close between raising the turn and calling and calling river.