Interesting Hand #1

[xorbie]

****** This is just an intro, feel free to move on to the hand *********

Ok, I haven't posted a hand in a long, long while. I was running really well, not much going on, moved up to 400NL, hit a vicious downswing (lotta set over set, flush over flush, etc) and moved back down to 100 to get that confidence rolling. So I'll be posting various hands, as I feel besides some tilt at 5/10 limit (I [censored] hate limit) I was playing pretty well while this downswing has pwned me.

*** End intro ***

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero ($293.61)
CO ($115.40)
Button ($121.25)
SB ($654.74)
BB ($100)
UTG ($58.20)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $5</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB (poster) raises to $9.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $25</font>, SB calls $15.

Flop: ($52) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $40</font>, SB calls $40.

Turn: ($132) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($132) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $125</font>, Hero?


Villain in this hand is a tricky LAG. He has been minraising me in every possible position PF, and has done it numerous times. I'm sure he could have two random big cards, SC, PP, etc. He also doesn't always follow through on the flop, he's really not that agressive postflop, just willing to bluff. I think I've repopped him just once or maybe twice prior. PF I made it $25 accidently, I was used to raising to $4 and him making it $7, as it was I would have made it $35 normally.

So... river? Turn check?

I think a stab at the pot on the turn would have been a good idea. Villain may have construed your flop bet as a standard continuation bet, and checking the turn may have indicated missed high hole cards/no flush.

[soah]

I'd usually bet the turn. As it stands, I call the river unless you have a read on his bet sizes (some people bet different but predictible amounts depending on their hand at the end). There are plenty of hands that call the flop which you're still beating.

[hockeyf]

Dont like the check/call he makes on the flop and then checking when the third club comes, he either made his flush or he has AAc, because if he dont have AKc or AAc he cant give you a cheap look at the turn if you are on a flushdraw. I think he raise with with TT, JJ, KK pair on the flop to see where he is.

[ QUOTE ]
Dont like the check/call he makes on the flop and then checking when the third club comes, he either made his flush or he has AAc,

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is another argument for a turn bet

[xorbie]

[ QUOTE ]
Dont like the check/call he makes on the flop and then checking when the third club comes, he either made his flush or he has AAc, because if he dont have AKc or AAc he cant give you a cheap look at the turn if you are on a flushdraw. I think he raise with with TT, JJ, KK pair on the flop to see where he is.

[/ QUOTE ]

All of this may or may not be true. Again this guy is tricky, meaning he is probably full of FPS. He may or may not have a club at all, his call on the flop could be a set, two pair, PP, flush draw, straight draw, whatever.

[PokerFink]

If he would call on the flop with air (such as two overs, maybe like AcKh), then I really like the line because it induces a bluff and keeps the pot from getting out of control.

If he is more likely to have a pocket pair or some type of draw, then I like a turn bet which should:
a) get value
b) keep him from potting the river into you

[Rockatansky]

[ QUOTE ]
****** This is just an intro, feel free to move on to the hand *********

Ok, I haven't posted a hand in a long, long while. I was running really well, not much going on, moved up to 400NL, hit a vicious downswing (lotta set over set, flush over flush, etc) and moved back down to 100 to get that confidence rolling. So I'll be posting various hands, as I feel besides some tilt at 5/10 limit (I [censored] hate limit) I was playing pretty well while this downswing has pwned me.

*** End intro ***

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero ($293.61)
CO ($115.40)
Button ($121.25)
SB ($654.74)
BB ($100)
UTG ($58.20)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $5</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB (poster) raises to $9.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $25</font>, SB calls $15.

Flop: ($52) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $40</font>, SB calls $40.

Turn: ($132) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($132) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $125</font>, Hero?


Villain in this hand is a tricky LAG. He has been minraising me in every possible position PF, and has done it numerous times. I'm sure he could have two random big cards, SC, PP, etc. He also doesn't always follow through on the flop, he's really not that agressive postflop, just willing to bluff. I think I've repopped him just once or maybe twice prior. PF I made it $25 accidently, I was used to raising to $4 and him making it $7, as it was I would have made it $35 normally.

So... river? Turn check?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your line is fine and I fold the river. A PSB from an OOP Villain on the river in a large pot usually signifies strength, and, without a read that Villain is capable of a bluff here, I usually regret making these types of calls.

[Malachii]

I'm not sure about the turn... a checkraise from Villain would make me very sad here, and if you bet this again you probably lose something like 77 or 88. On the other hand, if Villain is a pretty tricky, you might induce him to make a big bluff on the river, which is exactly what you don't want. If you show strength you make this easier to play on the river. I call here given your read, but I'm really not happy about it.

[Isura]

I think checking the flop is a good starting point.

[JaBlue]

Again you really needed to think about how you'd handle a river bet when you decided to check the turn. For what it's worth I think the decision is very close here, which is what sucks about playing against LAGs. I would call though

[Malachii]

[ QUOTE ]
I think checking the flop is a good starting point.

[/ QUOTE ] Porque?

[element00]

imho there's way too many hands that can beat you to called PSB on the river.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think checking the flop is a good starting point.

[/ QUOTE ] Porque?

[/ QUOTE ]

Check flop, raise turn if he bets is a line I take in the right situation against this type of lag. Especially since likes to bluff more than value bet, this induces a bigger mistake imo than betting the flop. If he checks the turn, I'm checking again and calling up to a PSB on the river.

[xorbie]

[ QUOTE ]
Again you really needed to think about how you'd handle a river bet when you decided to check the turn. For what it's worth I think the decision is very close here, which is what sucks about playing against LAGs. I would call though

[/ QUOTE ]

I checked behind with the intention of calling $50-$60 on the river UI. I was definitely not expecting this large a bet.

[Riposte]

Hey xorbie, very interesting hand. It almost makes me *angry* for some reason. I played with some bizarro-world LAGs like this today and I just couldn't figure them out.

What do you think about betting the turn? I think it might make everything easier. Maybe 3/4 pot or so. If he raises, easy fold. If he calls and checks the river, awesome, you can check behind. If he calls and bets into you on the river, I think we can fold here too knowing we're beat.

[GoCubsGo]

I probably play this the same way. Turn check is good but you have to remember that it will invite a bluff on the river. I think you're ahead enough on the river to make a call profitable.

[orange]

Argh..I can't decide whether to check or bet the turn.

2 Reasons for betting-
-You can bet and fold to a raise, and you are fairly sure you are beat.
-It may give you a free/cheaper showdown.

reasons for not betting/checking the turn-
-Pot control
-Free /images/graemlins/club.gif look (maybe Q is good here?)
-Checking with position and intending to call a bet is often best when stacks are this deep IMO

I don't know. I call this river usually, and play it the same way you do.

[xorbie]

I was taken aback by the bet size. My gut told me call, but I really didn't want to get back to being an avg stack and not being able to take this guy for everything later. Maybe not the best reason, but I think it does make this closer to a fold than otherwise.

Anyway he shows QK/images/graemlins/heart.gif. I type "nh sir, you have big bigger balls than I do".

Honestly though there's no way he bets this big with a flush.

[amoeba]

everybody says bet this turn but nobody says how much.

I don't think you should be worried about flush as it happens as often as a lower pocket pair flopping a set.

[beset7]

hero calls.

isn't that the next step in this standard controling the pot size with a vulnerable hand vs. a LAG line?

[savman]

betting the turn is not a good idea imo...unless u bet with the intention of calling a push. u have a good hand with a good draw check it through i say....

[2PAUL2]

i dont like pf this deep unless youve been 3 betting with suited connecters/small pairs occasionally. if not it is hard for him to make a mistake post flop.

paul