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View Full Version : QJs-GutShot & FLDR, Overplay?

smokylosecannon
10-19-2005, 10:43 PM
No solid read on villians, comment on any round is welcome.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (12 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 13 BB
newhizzle
10-19-2005, 10:49 PM
i like c/ring flop, i dont want to button to raise me and knock out SB

i really think you should check turn, you have lost a lot of equity on the turn and it dosent look like you have a lot of fold equity after the flop action
10-19-2005, 10:50 PM
your flop lead was good, maybe the sb would fold to 2 bets and you could 3 bet then take down the pot on the turn or with a river bluff.

but when the sb calls 2 cold, that must raise a red flag. just play your draw as a draw and let it go if you miss. you have bad posotion to attempt any other line.
michaelp
10-19-2005, 10:58 PM
I really like the flop play, especially the 3rd raise.

Like others I think the turn was overplayed.
10-19-2005, 10:59 PM
your 3 bet on the flop smells of fishiness. join my table i will take your $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
newhizzle
10-19-2005, 11:03 PM
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your 3 bet on the flop smells of fishiness. join my table i will take your $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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i think after betting and having it 3/way, his 3-bet is right, unless hes up against a set(?), he has an equity edge, i prefer c/ring to beting out tho, because i dont want to knock out SB
10-19-2005, 11:04 PM
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your 3 bet on the flop smells of fishiness. join my table i will take your $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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i think after betting and having it 3/way, his 3-bet is right, unless hes up against a set(?), he has an equity edge, i prefer c/ring to beting out tho, because i dont want to knock out SB

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your 3 bet on the flop smells of fishiness. join my table i will take your $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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michaelp
10-19-2005, 11:06 PM
I like this point of the c/raise.
smokylosecannon
10-19-2005, 11:14 PM
Thanks for comments guys. I like my flop play too. I have 13 outs for FLDR and Gut Shot. Even though I only have 2 villians, I think it is worth pumping the flop. Turn play is more questionable. I was thinking that I 3-bets the flop, I should bet turn to make Button folds, he could hold AJ or AQ. I should probably pick better spot to attempt this play. I was probably up against made stright or 2 pairs on turn. I think stright is more likely when as some of you point out that SB cold call 2 on flop. c/c on turn is better line. But then again, what do I do if J or Q hits on river? I can probably call one bet, but that's the call I really don't like to make.
10-19-2005, 11:15 PM
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your flop lead was good, maybe the sb would fold to 2 bets and you could 3 bet then take down the pot on the turn or with a river bluff.

but when the sb calls 2 cold, that must raise a red flag. just play your draw as a draw and let it go if you miss. you have bad posotion to attempt any other line.

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man you need t olern how to f'ing write man, i cant undersand your mutha fing post, dude, leran to articulate. jeusus learn some pronunciation&gt;
smokylosecannon
10-19-2005, 11:20 PM
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your flop lead was good, maybe the sb would fold to 2 bets and you could 3 bet then take down the pot on the turn or with a river bluff.

but when the sb calls 2 cold, that must raise a red flag. just play your draw as a draw and let it go if you miss. you have bad posotion to attempt any other line.

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man you need t olern how to f'ing write man, i cant undersand your mutha fing post, dude, leran to articulate. jeusus learn some pronunciation&gt;

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superyob, you need to learn the game. Here is the key word for you "Value Bet", read SSHE. For everyone else, thanks for your input.
10-19-2005, 11:27 PM
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your 3 bet on the flop smells of fishiness. join my table i will take your $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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i think after betting and having it 3/way, his 3-bet is right, unless hes up against a set(?), he has an equity edge, i prefer c/ring to beting out tho, because i dont want to knock out SB

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your 3 bet on the flop smells of fishiness. join my table i will take your $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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dont you listen&gt;
10-19-2005, 11:53 PM
any stakes limit cash game you say the stakes ill make the table i promise you.
10-20-2005, 12:08 AM
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Thanks for comments guys. I like my flop play too. I have 13 outs for FLDR and Gut Shot. Even though I only have 2 villians, I think it is worth pumping the flop. Turn play is more questionable. I was thinking that I 3-bets the flop, I should bet turn to make Button folds, he could hold AJ or AQ. I should probably pick better spot to attempt this play. I was probably up against made stright or 2 pairs on turn. I think stright is more likely when as some of you point out that SB cold call 2 on flop. c/c on turn is better line. But then again, what do I do if J or Q hits on river? I can probably call one bet, but that's the call I really don't like to make.

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chicken way to back out
Sintax
10-20-2005, 01:28 AM
I hate the preflop limp UTG with QJs. Unless you are in an extremely loose and passive game, limping here sucks.

I hate leading out at the flop. The button either has a good hand or is bluffing. I see almost no chance of him folding anything here, but he could raise and isolate you while holding a better hand. Going for the checkraise may let you buy the pot on the turn.

Does anyone else agree or should I be running back to the books?
newhizzle
10-20-2005, 01:35 AM
limping UTG should be fine at 2/4 and is debateable at higher limits, but usually ok, i also think a c/r is better on the flop as i have said, but not to buy the pot, for equity reasons
ellipse_87
10-20-2005, 02:04 AM
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i also think a c/r is better on the flop as i have said, but not to buy the pot, for equity reasons

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Agreed. "Pumping the pot" on the flop after the raise and cc is correct with flush draw/gut/two weakish overs. However, pumping the pot should have meant check-raising in the first place. Betting out on the flop would have been more correct if he was protecting a ten.