why no mma to boxing conversions?

[astroglide]

since mulder is about to expedite the destruction of busch stadium and i'm poking around this forum, i figured i'd ask this question.

why haven't strikers like, say, liddel or belfort given pro boxing a shot? obviously they'd need to drop weight and make a lot of changes, but i'd think if they got any kind of decent fights going they could draw a lot of money as a 'crossover' fighter.

I saw an interview with Liddell today and he said something along the lines of "boxers taking 200 quality shots to the head in one fight and he hasnt taken that many in his career", and he doesnt like to get hit. Makes sense to me.

[HajiShirazu]

Most of the top MMA guys would get destroyed by top-level boxers. Some have boxed and done well, but not against the top fighters. BTW, does anybody remember the first UFC's where it was a "battle of the martial arts?" The boxers always took a beatdown from the takedown guys. Those were the best. I remember the very first ones allowed groin shots!
However, look at K-1 and pride. Plenty of crossover action going on over there and K-1 is way more popular than boxing every could be in Japan. But kickboxing is much more like real fighting than boxing, which is why many kickboxers have been able to adjust and vice versa.

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
Most of the top MMA guys would get destroyed by top-level boxers.

[/ QUOTE ]

obviously, but i think if i were in their shoes i would give it a shot in private to see if it was doable just for the sake of a sweet retirement.

[sublime]

i plan on dropping some weight and kicking the [censored] out of some teenages.

[jstnrgrs]

[ QUOTE ]
since mulder is about to expedite the destruction of busch stadium and i'm poking around this forum, i figured i'd ask this question.

why haven't strikers like, say, liddel or belfort given pro boxing a shot? obviously they'd need to drop weight and make a lot of changes, but i'd think if they got any kind of decent fights going they could draw a lot of money as a 'crossover' fighter.

[/ QUOTE ]

because boxing is stupid (worse than basketball even).

[Big Business]

Its all a matter of money and training. Chuck Liddell would be stupid to go to boxing because he would be taking a pay cut and hurt his MMA status. The're have been a few that have tried it with mixed results.

Jens Pulver who was a former UFC Lightweight Champion did fairly well, but did not make any money and went back to MMA. Now,some MMA fighters will have boxing fights on small shows to help their standup and it does not count against their record.

Plus, I think boxing is rigged half the time for the big fights.

[Boris]

I think the money sucks in boxing.

[kenberman]

b/c they are different sports, and switching from one to the other isn't that simple. kind of like asking why rugby players don't just become pro football players.

[astroglide]

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Its all a matter of money and training. Chuck Liddell would be stupid to go to boxing because he would be taking a pay cut and hurt his MMA status. The're have been a few that have tried it with mixed results.

[/ QUOTE ]

for somebody with a decent size i don't see how they could make less money in boxing if they actually became good

[Colonel Kataffy]

[ QUOTE ]
b/c they are different sports, and switching from one to the other isn't that simple. kind of like asking why rugby players don't just become pro football players.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is correct.

[astroglide]

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This is correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

and it's also obviously understood. congratulations on your affirmation of the obvious. good post. sports are different from each other and require different skills. it's also probably why they have different names, hadn't thought of that one either.

i'm talking about standing strikers here, with the motivation of money/fame. i would think it would have happened by now, but i guess the mma player pool is just too small.

it's not as literal as a rugby/football thing because you're talking about a huge size variance in addition to a skillset there. with mma->boxing it's an adapted skillset. i would think rugby players would get rolled by 300+ pound juggernauts and would be too balanced/jack-of-all trades to go for any particular football position and excel. rugby to soccer (assuming by football american football was intended) would be a much better analog to the situation i posted.

[kenberman]

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i would think it would have happened by now, but i guess the mma player pool is just too small.

[/ QUOTE ]

or, it could be that the skill difference between the 2 is too much to overcome for the average MMA'er.

I didn't mean to be obnoxious in my original reply - I was simply stating that the simplest answer to your question is probably the correct one. Boxers spend years and years honing their trade, and to expect anyone - even a person with an existing similar skill set - to compete at the world class level is asking an awful lot.

[ QUOTE ]
i would think rugby players would get rolled by 300+ pound juggernauts and would be too balanced/jack-of-all trades to go for any particular football position and excel. rugby to soccer (assuming by football american football was intended) would be a much better analog to the situation i posted.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really disagree with you here. linebackers, strong safeties, and running backs are all tpositions where rugby players could fit, and their skill set applies directly.

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
I really disagree with you here. linebackers, strong safeties, and running backs are all tpositions where rugby players could fit, and their skill set applies directly.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not a football and certainly not a rugby guy, but i know the offensive lines are averaging over 300 pounds and getting bigger every year. you still have to be huge to put up with those guys. running back sounds more like the ticket but they would need legs to do it. it just seems like all the rugby players i see are sturdy guys, but relatively lean, and physically geared to handle any aspect (offense, defense, running) well. you'd want a running back to be somebody who runs fast as hell and won't get killed in the process, right? running back i can see, but the defensive line just seems like a death sentence these days unless you're an ogre.

[kenberman]

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[ QUOTE ]
I really disagree with you here. linebackers, strong safeties, and running backs are all tpositions where rugby players could fit, and their skill set applies directly.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not a football and certainly not a rugby guy, but i know the offensive lines are averaging over 300 pounds and getting bigger every year. you still have to be huge to put up with those guys. running back sounds more like the ticket but they would need legs to do it. it just seems like all the rugby players i see are sturdy guys, but relatively lean, and physically geared to handle any aspect (offense, defense, running) well. you'd want a running back to be somebody who runs fast as hell and won't get killed in the process, right? i think that's a discrepancy in physical makeup too, but the defensive line just seems like a death sentence these days unless you're an ogre.

[/ QUOTE ]

no way could any rugby player play O line or D line.

but, a typical NFL linebacker is probably 6'3, 250, and there are a lot of rugby players this size. rugby players smaller than that are probablty pretty fast guys who would be well suited for Strong Safety. Re: RB's, well, you have guys 180 pound guys, 280 pound guys, and all sorts in between...kind of like rugby.

a typical NFL fullback (which is kind of a dying position) is probably the closest match to an average rugby player.

[Colonel Kataffy]

[ QUOTE ]
and it's also obviously understood

[/ QUOTE ]

If the answer was so obvious, then why post the question at all.

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i'm talking about standing strikers here

[/ QUOTE ]

MMA standup isn't as similar to Boxing as you think it is. There is such a thing as a multisport athelete and they do exist in MMA/Boxing, but somebody who is in the top 10th of one percent of one sport might only be in the top one percent of the other. The top heavy weight fighter makes a fortune, but how much does the 50th best heavyweight make. If the best MMA fighter transferred over to boxing and was the 50th best boxer, it would be a great accomplishment, but wouldn't earn him a fortune.

Furthermore, these guys like being top dogs. Chuck Liddel doesn't want to get his ass kicked by Antonio Tarver in a boxing ring anymore than Tarver wants to get his ass kicked in the Octagon.

Even if the top rugby/mma guys could be top nfl/boxing guys, no one is going to pay them top dollar right away. They'd have to spend a lot of time proving themselves first at a much reduced income. These athletes have a limited amount of time at the top of their profession and it's likely the risk of being a flop isn't worth the years they may have to spend to equal or exceed their previous earnings. I'd guess a lot of low level rugby/mma types attempt to switch to more lucrative sports when they realize they're not going to be upper echelon guys in their initial field, but they're not famous, so no one really cares. Many sprinters and distance runners switch to soccer once it's clear they're no longer/never going to be in the top levels of track athletes, but no one pays much attention except in rare cases.

[astroglide]

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If the answer was so obvious, then why post the question at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

that wasn't "the answer". that was the leading and obvious reason why it isn't common, it doesn't prove that it shouldn't occur. people have attempted to play multiple professional sports before (baseball and football, basketball and baseball, etc) and the big ones who tried it didn't even have signifigant financial motivation to do so. crossing sports like that is a lot more difficult because of the game differences, not to mention the scheduling.

the post is more of an opening discussion as to how difficult it would be for an mma fighter to convert, who tried it in the past and failed, that sort of thing. please just refrain from posting in the thread. did you honestly think it would be like, "mma and boxing are different." "oh wow! i didn't notice that...thanks for the answer!"

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
Even if the top rugby/mma guys could be top nfl/boxing guys, no one is going to pay them top dollar right away. They'd have to spend a lot of time proving themselves first at a much reduced income.

[/ QUOTE ]

as a 'regular' player, of course they're going to get backed off if they haven't developed the skills yet. i disagree about not getting paid well though, i'm sure an exhibition/ppv match could generate money if it were priced/marketed well. i think you'd have to have some sort of "player allegiance" thing to get either association to pick it up, with mma being much more likely. somebody like wec would probably be willing to do it.

[ QUOTE ]
These athletes have a limited amount of time at the top of their profession and it's likely the risk of being a flop isn't worth the years they may have to spend to equal or exceed their previous earnings.

[/ QUOTE ]

lots of mma fighters have full-time jobs. many of them complain about not having discipline in their training when they don't have a fight scheduled. there are often large gaps between fights for recovery and hype. i don't think it would be an impossible mission to have them do a lot of boxing training during their downtime. it's not as if it would be wasted time for them either.

[hoyaboy1]

A few reasons:

1 - most people start MMA later than boxers start their training, and wouldn't have the time to switch to boxing after - Liddell, for example is way too old.

2 - MMA standup, even for pure strikers, is much different than boxing.

3 - The best strikers in MMA would not EVER rise to elite status in boxing, so why bother? Boxers spend years and years training specific skills to work in a specific sport. MMA fighters spend much less time specifically on boxing, and would be starting from way behind.

The best strikers in MMA would be far worse at boxing, be far less famous, and make far less money if they went over to boxing.

[astroglide]

http://www.ivansblog.com/2005/08/mixed-martial-arts-ufc-54-pay-scale.html

most seem to get paid relatively beans for the risk ratio involved. james irvin gets 3k per fight, WOW.

[Colonel Kataffy]

This was your question?
[ QUOTE ]
why no mma to boxing conversions?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ken's answer was responsive to this question. Deal with it.

[ QUOTE ]
the post is more of an opening discussion as to how difficult it would be for an mma fighter to convert

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh I see. You want to know how difficult it would be. So when you ask why this doesn't happen, and Ken responds that it would be difficult, (which is a responsive answer to your question) and I agree with him, why not just ask either of us the follow up question, "How difficult?"

[hoyaboy1]

I know how much the lower end guys are paid. Those guys have no shot of doing anything in boxing. The elite MMA fighters who actually make good money (a few in UFC and a lot in Pride and Hero's in Japan) would be far worse off if they switched to boxing.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.ivansblog.com/2005/08/mixed-martial-arts-ufc-54-pay-scale.html

most seem to get paid relatively beans for the risk ratio involved. james irvin gets 3k per fight, WOW.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. That makes your question all the more appropriate.

These guys are nowhere near the ballpark of what top boxers and pro-wrestlers make.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
I know how much the lower end guys are paid. Those guys have no shot of doing anything in boxing. The elite MMA fighters who actually make good money (a few in UFC and a lot in Pride and Hero's in Japan) would be far worse off if they switched to boxing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Couture and Liddel made about 200k in UFC 54. How much more than that are the top Pride/K-1/whatever guys making?

Top boxers have multi-million purses. Top pro-wrestlers have multi-million annual contracts. The wrestlers might make the most, since they have so many more endorsement and cross-over opportunities.

[IHateKeithSmart]

Hmm. For some reason this question reminds me of the Bart Gunn vs. Butterbean match. Now that was funny.

[hoyaboy1]

Again - only the very best boxers make more than the top UFC guys per fight. Top guys in Japan make more - hard to say how much (they don't release the info) but I've heard up to a million a fight.

No top 10 MMA fighter would be near top 25 at any weight class as a boxer, and thus would make less. Wrestling is an option, and many guys in Japan wrestle and fight. Shamrock did it in the past in the WWF.

[ChicagoTroy]

I haven't read the rest of this thread, but MMAists are generally a) terrible strikers compared to boxers and b) can't pass a steroid test.