Yet another weak-tight turn?

[afreeman]

Villain is 62/4.2/1.3 over about 70 hands. I'm in TAG mode, with stats for the table at 22/7/2.2. Table overall is medium-loose and fairly aggressive at 32/7.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+1 ($19.35)
MP1 ($8.20)
MP2 ($21.70)
MP3 ($30.35)
CO ($9.65)
Button ($21.80)
SB ($24.25)
BB ($21.30)
Hero ($25.55)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1</font>, UTG+1 calls $1, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls $1, MP3 calls $1, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB (poster) calls $0.90, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($5.25) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $6</font>, UTG+1 calls $6, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, SB folds.

Straight and flush draw on the board, so slight overbet to take this down now.

Turn: ($17.25) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets $4</font>, Hero calls $4.

After going back over this, calling seems like about the worst of the options here. However, after villain instantly called the overbet, I figure he could have anything from aces or a ratty two-pair to a flush/straight draw.

So what is the right move here?

Leading with 2/3 PSB was the other option that I was considering, but I wimped out. Didn't seriously consider a c/r, and with villain's stats, it seems entirely likely that I still have the best hand, so I can't get away from this, especially considering that I'm getting over 4:1.

Ever feel like a deer staring into the headlights?

River: ($25.25) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

I still have no idea where I am with this hand, but the trey definitely doesn't help me, so I'm thinking cheap showdown at this point. Good? Bad?

Final Pot: $25.25

[EMcWilliams]

This hand hurts to read. Raise more PF definately. Frankly speaking you dug yourself into a big hole with a 3xbb raise. WAY TO WEAK. If the villian is loose as you said, I think hes holding the ace or a flush draw. You fired heavy at the flop, and he just called, not re-raising, so his hand cant be that good. The weak turn bet makes not a lot of sense, and I think I am probably beat here and lay it down. Since you called, I might have bet out the river as a block so he couldnt hit it so hard to force me outta the hand.

[afreeman]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise more PF definately. Frankly speaking you dug yourself into a big hole with a 3xbb raise. WAY TO WEAK.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was 4xBB raise, which I though was fairly standard for a first-in raise?

Really what I'm wondering though is whether a 2/3 PSB on the turn would have been the way to go with this.

How big would that blocking bet on the river be?

[Macquarie]

I didn't think this hand was so bad! I guess that's your standard raise, and I think it's OK to keep it standard, but also OK to raise a little more UTG. Obviously four callers was a disaster, but it's results-oriented to decide we should have raised more.

With 4 callers and an A on the board, we're probably dead if anyone calls the continuation bet, but it's likely still +EV to make one here. A /images/graemlins/club.gif makes it a little less likely he's drawing to the flush, so I play the same as you here. Nice hand.

I guess I'm the only one who c/f the flop?

Your PF raise was fine. You did just over a pot size raise from UTG. That's fine.

But 4 callers really bites. You saw a flop 5 handed. The ace hits, flush draw hits, and a straight draw hits. You're UTG and have 3 players to act behind you. I don't think it's too weak to check/fold this flop. The problem with betting this flop is that 4 people called preflop, so now the pot is bloated to 20bb. In order to bet into this with all of these draws and to have any chance of getting an ace to fold, you have to bet somewhere between 15-25bb on the flop. I don't want to put that much money in when you're almost certainly beat or will be beat before it's over. I c/f the flop.

I want to make two more points.

One: there's a difference between being "weak-tight" and prudent. I think check/folding this flop into a 4 other people is probably prudent and not weak-tight.

Two: if you do fire away for almost 1/4 of your stack on the flop, then what? If any one calls, it's a tough turn. If any one bets anything like 1/2 the pot you will pretty much have to committ the rest of your stack with an underpair. Does that sound like a good idea?

[elus2]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I'm the only one who c/f the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

given the flop texture, i put no more money in unless i spike a K.

[ziggydonks]

[ QUOTE ]
You fired heavy at the flop, and he just called, not re-raising, so his hand cant be that good.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a good way to think of villians actions. His turn call could mean he has a monster; since hero has made a big pot, villian isn't forced to raise a monster, because he thinks the pot is big enough to get all his money in. So, I think the best option is to bet slightly less on the flop, closer to pot, and then bet 2/3 pot on turn and fold to a raise. It's amazing how many players will fold to the second barrel on the turn with the best hand.