A stunt/joke that is turning into something more

[Percula]

I play a lot of wide spread limit which makes for some big bet poker from time to time. The game I play in has a fair amount of "air play" (wild bluffing). As a result people make what they at least feel is a "big laydown" and ask to see cards or do the classic "what did you have?".

So one session after hearing "what did you have?" or more often "what do you have?" during the hand I got sick of it and told a player, you can see them for half the uncalled bet after you muck your hand and I am pushed the pot. Too my total shock the guy paid half the maximum bet I put out on the turn and I flipped em up showing the second nuts.

So after that I started from time to time to make the same offer to other players. And still to my shock I get several people paying the half bet to see what the heck I am betting with.

Now I haven't played much live lately and decided to head down for a session Saturday. Too my shock and surprise the shoe was on the other foot and from a player I have never seen before in my life! Just to be clear here I did not directly ask him what he had, but wondered out loud "humm wonder if he has the flush" with my boat in hand. Lots of action insued.

After the hand I asked where the hell he picked up that stunt?!?! And he turns around and points to one of solid regulars, well will call Pete, in the game at another table. Again I am surprised as I have never done that with him or to the best of my memory never when he was at the table.

I get up and go talk to "Pete"... And I explained what just happened to me and asked him where he picked it up and you guessed it, he points to yet another solid regular a couple of tables over. And low and behold this is someone I have done this to.

Pete and I decide to take a walk. I respect Pete, he is a good thinking player and a lurker here. I told him how the whole stunt started and had from time to time continued.

We talked about the value of this for awhile. Here are some of the things we came up with...

From a meta game stand point it is a pretty strong play to offer up information that you are not required to provide. It doesn't matter if you are showing air or the mortal nuts, it tells the other players that are paying attention (which at the level I play at is 50% to 100%) that you are confident enough in your skills that it doesn't matter if they gain information, rather it is true or not.

From a money stand point, the number of times I get the payoff versus a fold in the very small sample is strongly ahead.

From a playing the player stand point I often can put someone on tilt or give them a sense of confidence that is not warranted. With this I have been able to earn many times the maximum bet from the player later in the session.

So is this just a long term stupid stunt that is catching on, or is it something that really has some mert?

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

I tend to be in the "don't give any information" crowd, but I think your play has some merit. Mostly for the reasons you mention. Those half big bets add up. I think the important thing is to be aware of how each show affects your image and then to make sure you stay keenly aware of it for future rounds. Having one image or another isn't necessarily good or bad - it's knowing what your image is and taking advantage of it either way.

[Black Aces 518]

The thing is, you have to know your opponents well. SO many players pay that last bet cause "I gotta see it" or "I wanna keep im honest" and so on. If these players are getting a discount from what they would have paid anyway, it's -EV. If they're gonna muck for sure, I think the 1/2 bet is worth more than the info you're giving out.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

There's a sucker born every minute. But if you refuse to take their money, then you're the sucker. Basically you're giving them the choice of folding, calling, or still folding, but giving you half anyway if you show. Suckers.

al

Im gonna start doing this lol. And yea, im gonna take credit for it too /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Felipe]

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Im gonna start doing this lol. And yea, im gonna take credit for it too /images/graemlins/grin.gif

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NH

[Percula]

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The thing is, you have to know your opponents well. SO many players pay that last bet cause "I gotta see it" or "I wanna keep im honest" and so on. If these players are getting a discount from what they would have paid anyway, it's -EV. If they're gonna muck for sure, I think the 1/2 bet is worth more than the info you're giving out.

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We are not talking limit hold'em here. I am only doing this in NL and wide spread limit (5-150) games aka big bet poker. They are facing a 150 to thousands bet that they have to pay half to see.

[WDC]

Just a couple of weeks ago a guy paid me $20 to show my crads. This is after he chose not to call my $16 river bet.

[Black Aces 518]

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The thing is, you have to know your opponents well. SO many players pay that last bet cause "I gotta see it" or "I wanna keep im honest" and so on. If these players are getting a discount from what they would have paid anyway, it's -EV. If they're gonna muck for sure, I think the 1/2 bet is worth more than the info you're giving out.

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We are not talking limit hold'em here. I am only doing this in NL and wide spread limit (5-150) games aka big bet poker. They are facing a 150 to thousands bet that they have to pay half to see.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoops, I'm a douche. Just saw the "limit" at the start and forgot the "big bet" talk after reading the whole post. I think it's great in this situation, then, since the chances of them making a "gotta see" or "sheriff" call is drastically reduced.

[somapopper]

It's still worth it in limit. It would have to be about 1/10th of a big bet before I might not feel it was worth it.

[Black Aces 518]

Soma-

Really, even against donks who overcall with A hi? I mean, obviously if they are CERTAINLY folding, any amount is better, but so many times they pay to see when it's obvious to anyone they are beat. I like it as an offer after they've mucked, but if they know it's a "standing" rule and offer, I think you'll lose $$.

[J.A.Sucker]

I used to play lots of spread limit (20-200), and unless the game is really tight, I would never want to get called. I'd be a rich man if that were the case. I miss spread limit. If you are viewing it as a big bet game, you shouldn't. FWIW, the idiots will believe whatever you want them to, and the good players will disregard all of this stuff regarding table chatter. Don't worry about it.

[J.A.Sucker]

If some dude will pay you 150 bucks to see your hand, do it.

[J.A.Sucker]

You are talking limit hold em here (spread limit). You should post some hands. I miss the old spread limit days. Really, think about it like limit poker with no blinds. This may not be the case if there's some buy-in cap. Where's the game being spread?

[Percula]

[ QUOTE ]
You are talking limit hold em here (spread limit). You should post some hands. I miss the old spread limit days. Really, think about it like limit poker with no blinds. This may not be the case if there's some buy-in cap. Where's the game being spread?

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I have posted some hands in mid/high stake NL/PL fourm.

Ya it is still limit. Interesting game, plays like NL PF and sometimes on the flop then with anything near a good sized pot becomes limit on the turn and river.

Oh, yes I getted called for 150 all the time, been in a few multi way (1 bet, 3 raise) capped pots too. My biggest pot to date is a little over 1800 going to the felt on the river with my srt8 flush versus nut flush.

In AZ there is a law that limits the maximum bet in any poker game to $150. With the popularity of NL, the closest thing that can be spread is a X to 150 game. You will see the blinds from of 1/2 and 3/5. The only room that you can always find the game running is Casino Arizona, but all the rooms spread it, but most the time its not running or only runs a couple of hours.

The game will vary quite a bit from weak/tight to tight/passive to 110% LAG. It really just depends on who is in the game.

I have also use this in a private big NL game I "take shots" in from time to time. Most of the players there are too savy to pay, but I have had one guy so on tilt that he paid 750 to see...

So where was the 200 game spread?

[somapopper]

That's a good point, against a player who is really just calling to see, I suppose we have to make the fraction of a bet large enough to compensate for when they o/w would have called our value bet.

[jzpiano14]

This idea is genius! I love it