A6s ugggh

[hobbsmann]

BT seems to be fishy over a small sample and SB seems a little over aggro over an equally small sample size.

Should I be checking this flop? Folding to a raise? 3-bet the turn? Raise certain non-obvious rivers? Felt pretty lost on the best line here...

Party Poker 15.00/30.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(9 handed)</font> link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10.00 SB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (8.00 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero...

[crazygoose]

I don't think this is a super hard hand to play here. You have to bet the flop so button doesnt get a draw. the cr indicates you are behind. Again you have to bet the turn ...villain knows this and is cring a better hand again. I fold that turn and think you couldnt have played it any different. PS i play 24

[shant]

Ugh is right. I'd played it the same as you up until this point. Since you say he's a little over-aggro, I probably call down from here and get mad at myself.

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold that turn and think you couldnt have played it any different.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think you can fold the turn as he would play AT-AQ &amp; KK like this and you have outs to win or chop. You can make an argument for folding the river UI.

[toss]

SB 3-betting PF then CRing both the flop and turn wtih Bttn sandwiched in the middle really makes me think that we're beat. Our effective odds are like 7.5:1-8.5:1 and sometimes we can split with a K or win with a 6. Other times we're drawing dead. A small fraction of the time Bttn will may river a flush. Lots of stuff going on here, but I think we can find a fold.

Edit: Shant points out we can't fold the turn.

[W. Deranged]

Hobbs:

1. 15/30! Awesome dude. Keep up the good work.

2. This hand just bites. Villain's turn check is VERY suspicious. Would anyone ever consider checking the turn behind here, knowing that if villain has a flush draw we have a bunch of hits outs killed anyway, and we are getting check-raised a ton, and checking might induce a river bluff, and we have outs, and so on and so forth.

It seems weak, and maybe I'm being results oriented, but how often is villain check-raising here without an A on the flop, and when he is, how often is he doing it with a hand that has an substantial number of outs to our trip As, and how often is he doing it with a hand which he's willing to put two big bets in once the turn comes?

[callmedonnie]

I probably play the hand the exact same way just because the read is overly aggressive. I pray for a King or Ace to hit and showdown unhappily, thinking that if this was against a passive player I could have use WA/WB line.

[hobbsmann]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I fold that turn and think you couldnt have played it any different.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think you can fold the turn as he would play AT-AQ &amp; KK like this and you have outs to win or chop. You can make an argument for folding the river UI.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think finding a fold on the river UI is a possibilty as there is not much I'm beating that villian plays this way.

Edit: I should say that I treat Q-Ts as possible outs here and would be more inclined to call a river bet if those peeled off.

[hobbsmann]

[ QUOTE ]
Hobbs:

1. 15/30! Awesome dude. Keep up the good work.

2. This hand just bites. Villain's turn check is VERY suspicious. Would anyone ever consider checking the turn behind here, knowing that if villain has a flush draw we have a bunch of hits outs killed anyway, and we are getting check-raised a ton, and checking might induce a river bluff, and we have outs, and so on and so forth.

It seems weak, and maybe I'm being results oriented, but how often is villain check-raising here without an A on the flop, and when he is, how often is he doing it with a hand that has an substantial number of outs to our trip As, and how often is he doing it with a hand which he's willing to put two big bets in once the turn comes?

[/ QUOTE ]
The idea of checking the turn just seems so weak, but it might be a legitimate line in this particular case. It be curious to more thoughts on this.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hobbs:

1. 15/30! Awesome dude. Keep up the good work.

2. This hand just bites. Villain's turn check is VERY suspicious. Would anyone ever consider checking the turn behind here, knowing that if villain has a flush draw we have a bunch of hits outs killed anyway, and we are getting check-raised a ton, and checking might induce a river bluff, and we have outs, and so on and so forth.

It seems weak, and maybe I'm being results oriented, but how often is villain check-raising here without an A on the flop, and when he is, how often is he doing it with a hand that has an substantial number of outs to our trip As, and how often is he doing it with a hand which he's willing to put two big bets in once the turn comes?

[/ QUOTE ]
The idea of checking the turn just seems so weak, but it might be a legitimate line in this particular case. It be curious to more thoughts on this.

[/ QUOTE ]

It does seem so weak, but so does folding the turn. And committing to putting in 3 more big bets here doesn't seem right either.

My primary thought is that I can't see villain check-calling down the rest of the hand. If he's checking he's checking with the intent of folding (or putting no more than 1 BB in probably), or with the intent of raising.

I can see the SB defending his blind like this with any ace, hence his average ace holding is actually A and 7.5 kicker. Since he is overaggressive, maybe even Kx+ or a PP. But, lets ignore that. The button may have the case ace too, and the SB FOS, which since button is fishy could be any kicker.

Hence, one of your opponents has the Ad probably, and the other is subsidizing. You have a slightly below average Ace in this instance, so you are probably not ahead, but you can strive to get to showdown cheaply for +EV, IMO. Also, it is possible for either of you to get counterfeited: say he has AT and the river is Q, so there are outs to split.

Disclaimer: I don't play 15/30, so maybe I am FOS.

EDIT: this is not accounting for a possible river heart. If a river heart, play accordingly

More specifically, calling on the cr on the flop is good. on the turn and river I check call when possible; If i get sandwiched, i fold.

[gh9801]

Call turn for sure. You're probably beat, but SB's line is so weird I'm not folding. SB (if he is thinking) might be using button as leverage against you on the turn, who knows. It's a tough hand... If SB leads river I'd probably make a crying call though just because the pot is a decent size