$55: Top pair and gutshot from blinds?

[Taraz]

Do you bet out here? What's your line if you check and the button bets the pot?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t1436)
SB (t1601)
Hero (t2325)
UTG (t1487)
MP1 (t1233)
MP2 (t598)
CO (t1320)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls t50, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Button calls t50, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t200) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero ????

Final Pot: t200

[brimstone1]

I'm fairly sure leading the flop isn't a bad thing to do.

I'm too weak on level 3 to do that.

I'll probably be ready to check/fold this one right here.

But if I were to bet, I'd look at taking it down right here. I'm OOP with a weak (meh, wheel) draw... I don't want to be called and see a brick turn; leaving me completely in the dark.

[bluefeet]

With your stack, I'd prefer to check-raise. You're risking giving a free card - and possibly the pot if/when you do, but I'd give UTG a chance to lead here. A weak probe from him might build a nice pot for you, if it gets called by a flush draw or a small piece by SB. Given the opportunity, I'm hitting it pretty hard.

At these blinds, with this pot, leading isn't horrible. L1/L2, it's simply being called too often by draws, overcards, etc.etc. At this level, a lead might be more successful, but for the same reason (decent pot), I'd expect to get your lead from UTG/Button. Leading, getting called, going to the turn OOP, where any overcard-non-Ace puts you in a tight spot...I prefer to take it down here. A strong check-raise is your best chance to do so IMO.

[pineapple888]

Wow, that's a crappy top pair. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I bet this out because I have something and I'm in the BB, so it's plausible that I have something. But I'm sure dumping it fast if I get any heat.

[pineapple888]

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With your stack, I'd prefer to check-raise.

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Well, I have to say I really don't like this idea. Any pair is going to blast you right back, and now you've lost far more money than you should have with a lousy hand.

My two cents...

[bigt439]

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With your stack, I'd prefer to check-raise.

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Well, I have to say I really don't like this idea. Any pair is going to blast you right back, and now you've lost far more money than you should have with a lousy hand.

My two cents...

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I agree. I lead 2/3 pot and am pretty much done with it after that.

[bluefeet]

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Any pair is going to blast you right back

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Perhaps (though not many are still limping PP&gt;55 at this blind level).

A couple things in my OR:

- "With your stack"
- "A weak probe"

I would not advocate c-r'ing with a stack closer to par. I would not advocate c-r'ing (or even calling), a 3/4-pot+ lead from UTG/Button.

Considering the range of hands peolpe are limping at this level (and yes, I'm discrediting to some degree mid-PP's), this flop is pretty scary to those outside the blinds. If we agree that Hero shouldn't be leading too much on this flop, then we are really limiting the times he will successfully take it down on the flop. The same guys that limp with A-rag (where "rag" - 2 or 4 maybe), KQo, etc, at this level...are the same that will cold-call in a heartbeat your modest lead -- thus, freezing you on the turn - where then, you're often looking at folding to a now, new sense of superiority facing your "I give" turn check (i.e. They lead the turn. And even if they don't you're certain to be facing overs on the turn and/or river, negating your TP"5").

Hero HAS the chips. Given the right circumstance (a "weak" probe), raising the t100 to t350-400 will often take the pot - having invested "only" a couple hundred more than a 3/4 lead that will to often get you nowhere.

[pineapple888]

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Any pair is going to blast you right back

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Perhaps (though not many are still limping PP&gt;55 at this blind level).



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Why not? If UTG and button are good, that's all they are limping. In fact, at a TA table, I don't even play this hand.

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Deleted: A bunch of stuff too deep for me.

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I call FPS. I think this is way too many conditions.

If it gets checked through, you are done unless you hit a card, because you now face the same situation as before, but worse off.

And if you bet and get called, now it's time to play some poker, with a hand where you can represent two pair and you have nine decent outs. Bring it on. Maybe I make a move, maybe not.

[lastchance]

I guess you can fire t100 and go from there, but I think a very safe check line is probably best, folding most times, and going for the raise against a few opponents.

I agree. I lead 2/3 pot and am pretty much done with it after that.

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[bluefeet]

Meh...I just like throwing out other avenues of thought (conceded if you'll agree that ANY of these lines are plausable when applied with the consideration of reads you might have on your opponent(s)).

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Any pair is going to blast you right back

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Perhaps (though not many are still limping PP&gt;55 at this blind level).



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Why not? If UTG and button are good, that's all they are limping. In fact, at a TA table, I don't even play this hand.



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For the record, I think you missed my point here. Raising or folding are more common at this level than limping.

[pineapple888]

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Meh...I just like throwing out other avenues of thought (conceded if you'll agree that ANY of these lines are plausable when applied with the consideration of reads you might have on your opponent(s)).

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Any pair is going to blast you right back

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Perhaps (though not many are still limping PP&gt;55 at this blind level).



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Why not? If UTG and button are good, that's all they are limping. In fact, at a TA table, I don't even play this hand.



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For the record, I think you missed my point here. Raising or folding are more common at this level than limping.

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I concur with both of these points, there's clearly no "single" answer. Thanks for the discussion.