Play a Hand Against the Masters

[the shadow]

I've decided to start a new thread inspired by Lloyd’s excellent “Play a Hand with the Masters” series in MTT.

The hand will be HU. I may take it from a real hand or simply make it up.

A panel will play the hand, decision point by decision point. I will divide the panel into HU matches, half playing the SB, half playing the BB.

I will PM each player his or her cards and the action to him or her. Each player will PM me his or her action and an explanation for that action.

Each player will have access only to that information he or she would have had if he or she were playing the hand in a real HU match. No player will know the other player’s hole cards, any cards on the table before they fall, or the action in any other HU match. No player will even know his or her opponent’s identity while playing the hand.

After the panel plays the hand, I will select one HU match that looks interesting, which I will post in stages – preflop, flop, turn, river. At the end, I will post the action in and results of each match plus the explanation that each player gave for his or her action.

The multiple matches hopefully will spark an interesting debate about alternative lines to play the same hand.

Please let me know if you would like to participate on the panel. I reserve the right to make absolutely arbitrary picks.

The Shadow

[Jman28]

Great idea.

One issue I have with it:

If you are making up the hands, or even taking them from interesting real hands, the probability distribution of hands is not realistic. Hands we each get will be designed to generate interesting action, and 52o will be less likely then 77, when it should be very much the opposite.

I don't think I explained myself well, but hopefully you understand what I mean.

[Scuba Chuck]

Shadow, why is your name in a different color?

[the shadow]

Now you notice. /images/graemlins/smile.gif It's been that way a while.

It's because citanul, despite some appearances to the contrary, is really a nice guy. As mod, he's got the power to change the color of a user's name at will.

As for the color, well, the shadow = /images/graemlins/spade.gif = black.

The Shadow

[nyc999]

I like the idea and would participate, but would we get any background on the player? With normal HU play you have observed your opponent for a while -- or are we treating this as a first hand of a HU match with an unknown opponent?

And why is your name in black?

[suited_ace]

YES. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=367 0785&Forum=f22&Words=follow&Searchpage=0&Limit=25& Main=3670785&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=26243& daterange=1&newerval=1&newertype=m&olderval=&older type=m&bodyprev=#Post3670785) Thank you.

[pooh74]

Me likey.

nice.

ty

[J-Lo]

i'm on the panel, mark it

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm on the panel, mark it

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to be J-Lo's opponent so I can school him.

[Bigwig]

I'll participate. And you should pick me because I'm goddamn good.

[lacky]

[ QUOTE ]
Each player will have access only to that information he or she would have had if he or she were playing the hand in a real HU match. No player will know the other player’s hole cards, any cards on the table before they fall, or the action in any other HU match. No player will even know his or her opponent’s identity while playing the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

if that part means zero read on your opponent whats the point. Most of good HU play is read dependent. Taking one hand played in a vacuem is unrealistic. Hopefully in your packet of info you send will be a general discription of the opponents playing style and tendencies. If thats not possible just talk the same people into playing hu matches on stars and sending u the hh's

Steve

[lacky]

I want gold, it goes with my title really well.

Steve

[lastchance]

Hell, I want in on this.

[citanul]

do it if people want me to

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
I want gold, it goes with my title really well.

Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

I cant wait till you go 2 and out at sttfhuc2. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[skipperbob]

I would like to participate...T.U.

[splashpot]

I'd do it, but my advice is questionable half of the time.

[Exitonly]

I think this format doesnt go well w/ Heads up, for the reasons Lacky said.. it really depends on what has happened up until that point...

[splashpot]

I think the hands should not necessarily be down to heads up. I think more interesting hands would be early game or on the bubble. To make this work, we'd just have to have hands where everyone fold except our participants.

[lacky]

why do you think i'm getting max use of it now, I'm 31 to 1 to repeat.

Steve

[Scuba Chuck]

I think this could be an interesting idea if:

A. There has to be some sort of established history.
B. There is some sort of character read.

For example, if earlier hands were shown that could represent opponent's style of play, that could be a good prelude to an interesting hand strategy.

[zipppy]

Shadow-

Why not do it like this: You pick two posters each week. Two players that you believe are solid and maybe even of equal or close skill (or at least two guys that play at the same level...you could even do a different buyin level each week). PM them, and arrange a time for the two of them to play a headsup SNG on pstars.

After it's done, they can both email you their hand history. You can review it, and select a hand or two from an entire HU match to give to the forum.

This way, interesting hands can come from developed reads and not just some made up situation.

Thoughts?

>>>ZIPPPY

[bawcerelli]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the hands should not necessarily be down to heads up. I think more interesting hands would be early game or on the bubble. To make this work, we'd just have to have hands where everyone fold except our participants.

[/ QUOTE ]

a scenario on the bubble with various stack sizes would make it more interesting I would think.

[splashpot]

[ QUOTE ]
Shadow-

Why not do it like this: You pick two posters each week. Two players that you believe are solid and maybe even of equal or close skill (or at least two guys that play at the same level...you could even do a different buyin level each week). PM them, and arrange a time for the two of them to play a headsup SNG on pstars.

After it's done, they can both email you their hand history. You can review it, and select a hand or two from an entire HU match to give to the forum.

This way, interesting hands can come from developed reads and not just some made up situation.

Thoughts?

>>>ZIPPPY

[/ QUOTE ]
If I'm not mistaken, this is supposed to be a SNG oriented exercise, not a heads up exercise. I think various interesting bubble hands are more appropriate.

[zipppy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the hands should not necessarily be down to heads up. I think more interesting hands would be early game or on the bubble. To make this work, we'd just have to have hands where everyone fold except our participants.

[/ QUOTE ]

a scenario on the bubble with various stack sizes would make it more interesting I would think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would it work to have 9 posters play an SNG together? It seems like a lot of people to coordinate, but there also seems to be a lot of interest from various players.

[zipppy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Shadow-

Why not do it like this: You pick two posters each week. Two players that you believe are solid and maybe even of equal or close skill (or at least two guys that play at the same level...you could even do a different buyin level each week). PM them, and arrange a time for the two of them to play a headsup SNG on pstars.

After it's done, they can both email you their hand history. You can review it, and select a hand or two from an entire HU match to give to the forum.

This way, interesting hands can come from developed reads and not just some made up situation.

Thoughts?

>>>ZIPPPY

[/ QUOTE ]
If I'm not mistaken, this is supposed to be a SNG oriented exercise, not a heads up exercise. I think various interesting bubble hands are more appropriate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Shadow's entire original post said that it was going to be a HU hand, so that's what I was going off of.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]

If I'm not mistaken, this is supposed to be a SNG oriented exercise, not a heads up exercise. I think various interesting bubble hands are more appropriate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh, I seem to find the HU games under the SNG tab on my pokersite. Guess they made a mistake.

[splashpot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If I'm not mistaken, this is supposed to be a SNG oriented exercise, not a heads up exercise. I think various interesting bubble hands are more appropriate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh, I seem to find the HU games under the SNG tab on my pokersite. Guess they made a mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]
If I sounded arrogant when I said that, I didn't mean to be. I'm just saying that 90% of the time by the time it gets HU in a SNG, the blinds are so high that it's push almost every hand. A more useful way to conduct this experiment is to use 4-6 handed hands. With different stack sizes, it will be more interesting that way. Plus more educational IMO.

[bawcerelli]

then again, almost every post on here is a question about a bubble move. nobody really posts HU situations (true because the blinds are so high) and I know I could probably make some improvements on my HU game. Do HU, bubble, or both, either way they're bound to be interesting.

Edit: I forgot to quote, but I am referring to the Splashpot post where the idea of playing a 2+2 SNG and discussing the strategies within.


I think this is a very good idea. Then a full hand history showing all downcards could be posted, and the play throughout discussed. This could also be done with players at several levels, as 215 strategy is probably much different than 11 strategy. I'll volunteer to play in the 11 or 22 game if we do it.

OT: I clicked the One-Table Tournament thing on the left 3 times because this thread was at the top and I thought i accidentally was clicking one MTT.

[ilya]

I would like to participate.

You look yellow, no offence.

[lacky]

were working on it

Steve

I don't see how you can do this with HU. I don't know about the other people, but to me my actual cards only means something for that one big pot. My preflop play has more meaning for future hands than the current hand unless it's a huge hand(the one big pot), in which case the preflop play is determined by how I set it up from my previous preflop play. My postflop play is completely read dependent and has nothing to do with the strength of my hand.

I'd need at least 15 previous hands to determine how I'd play one hand preflop, and postflop I'd need the whole history.

[AtticusFinch]

I'll volunteer to participate, just in case you want someone who totally sucks at HU play on the panel.

Otherwise I will read and hopefully learn something.

Great idea, Shadow.

P.S. Can my name be in <font color="brown"> this sweet brick-red
color?</font> /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll volunteer to participate, just in case you want someone who totally sucks at HU play on the panel.

Otherwise I will read and hopefully learn something.

Great idea, Shadow.

P.S. Can my name be in <font color="brown"> this sweet brick-red
color?</font> /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

your name can be nothing red. no.

[AtticusFinch]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll volunteer to participate, just in case you want someone who totally sucks at HU play on the panel.

Otherwise I will read and hopefully learn something.

Great idea, Shadow.

P.S. Can my name be in <font color="brown"> this sweet brick-red
color?</font> /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

your name can be nothing red. no.

[/ QUOTE ]

Got something against red in particular? Also, it's technically called "brown" in the UBB code /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Exitonly]

red = admin/2+2 author
green = mod

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll volunteer to participate, just in case you want someone who totally sucks at HU play on the panel.

Otherwise I will read and hopefully learn something.

Great idea, Shadow.

P.S. Can my name be in <font color="brown"> this sweet brick-red
color?</font> /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

your name can be nothing red. no.

[/ QUOTE ]

Got something against red in particular? Also, it's technically called "brown" in the UBB code /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

red is for admins and authors only.

brown, though, eh, why not? if all the other mods are going to be willy nilly about the coloring, i don't see why we shouldn't be...

beware, if there's a general concensus that the whole many colors thing sucks, i'll be the first to ask for it just to be put back to default coloring.

cit

[AtticusFinch]

[ QUOTE ]

red is for admins and authors only.


[/ QUOTE ]

Aha, forgot about that. We wouldn't want anyone mistaking me for one of those! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif If it's too close, feel free to turn it off.

[ QUOTE ]

brown, though, eh, why not? if all the other mods are going to be willy nilly about the coloring, i don't see why we shouldn't be...


[/ QUOTE ]

You rule, Cit.