Party $11 AK & c/b help

[TruFloridaGator]

Starting to play party again after playing stars turbos...just checking my betting/raising amounts. Are they ok?

#Game No : 2895462388
***** Hand History for Game 2895462388 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $10 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:16684493 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Tuesday, October 18, 14:04:41 EDT 2005
Table Table 67642 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Dukhunter925 ( $785 )
Seat 2: RandomHighs ( $800 )
Seat 3: JPL__ ( $800 )
Seat 4: x123xxx ( $770 )
Seat 5: feartheheel ( $840 )
Seat 6: ElroyB ( $892 )
Seat 7: ITM_247 ( $800 )
Seat 8: UrbanMeyer11 ( $785 )
Seat 9: DominoG ( $705 )
Seat 10: mrallrite ( $823 )
Trny:16684493 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to UrbanMeyer11 [ Ah Kh ]
>You have options at Table 66957 Table!.
JPL__ calls [15].
x123xxx folds.
feartheheel folds.
ElroyB folds.
ITM_247 calls [15].
UrbanMeyer11 raises [90].
DominoG folds.
mrallrite folds.
Dukhunter925 folds.
RandomHighs folds.
JPL__ folds.
ITM_247 calls [75].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7d, 8s, 2d ]
ITM_247 checks.
UrbanMeyer11 bets [140].
ITM_247 raises [280].

[GtrHtr]

This is just me but on level 1 I'll often (50-60%) limp AK EP-MP. With the number of callers, your raise is fine.

Flop bet is too high. If you bet at all, it is likely that a t45-60 type bet would gather you the same information. Check fold level 1 AK when you miss the flop is ok.

[TruFloridaGator]

ty

I typically like to either call with AK preflop, and hope someone raises so I can push in, or I raise like you did and hope for a reraise, again so I can push.

If I don't get reraised, and I don't hit, I agree with a probe bet of about 50% of the pot. But it is important that your bet to gather information not effect you that much in the long run.

-MG

[swiftrhett]

I raise more there preflop. 90 is a good amount for AA or KK that I want action on, but with AK, it would be more like 150-200 preflop raise.

[brimstone1]

I'm sorry but... for the sake of the OP and the casual reader, I have to point out that the above advice is horrible.

Do NOT raise AK in level 1 to 150-200.

[bluefeet]

I actually raise less PF. T60 should adequately retain your position, building a decent pot, and most importantly give you a more managable pot on the flop.

With a smaller pot, you have more flexibility when deciding whether or not to c-b a whiff (and how much). Given your large PF raise, you're quite compelled to lead here - at a hefty price. A smaller pot allows you to represent similarly, while saving valuable chips early on when met with resistance.

With a smaller PF raise, given the same call/flop, this is one I might check behind on. Not a crime to controll the pot size, while maintaing position, looking to improve on later streets.

[swiftrhett]

In a 1200 SNG pokertracker $11 database, I got AKo 125 times in level 1. My average is 89.40 per hand. Basically, I just raise huge with it preflop and get called mostly with pairs, but still enough crap to make it +EV. Should I be doing better? Oh yeah, and most of the times, I just steal the bets, which is 55 in this case.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry but... for the sake of the OP and the casual reader, I have to point out that the above advice is horrible.

Do NOT raise AK in level 1 to 150-200.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Slim Pickens]

[ QUOTE ]
I raise more there preflop. 90 is a good amount for AA or KK that I want action on, but with AK, it would be more like 150-200 preflop raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

At any level, it is a bad idea to vary the size of your raise based on information that's not available to the rest of the table. Most people at low limits don't notice, so some positive value can be extracted out of giving away information, but in general it's a bad idea because someone will notice eventually and take your chips with that information.

With AK, you will hit the flop about 1/3 of the time, so the pair will "hit" the other 2/3. Most low-level SnG players won't pay off a flopped pair of aces. Since they play Ax to all sorts of raises, why wouldn't you (they think)? 1/6 of the time you flop aces and essentially win the 1.3:1 or so bet. 1/6 of the time you flop kings and win more, now getting to make a bet paying 1:1 that you win somthing like 80% of the time. You have to be able to successfully continuation-bet a large fraction of the times neither an ace or king flops, which is very hard to do against low-level fishes who hate folding. You also have to not get stacked the 11% of the time they hit their set. Both are hard. On the other hand, if you make a raise with AK such that you get two callers, you win Sklansky-bucks right there since you will flop the best hand over 1/3 of the time, so there's no reason to discourage action as you've suggested doing.

[Slim Pickens]

I raise to 60 or 75 with two limpers, the exact amount determined by random nerve firings. Make the flop bet 1/2-2/3 the pot if you have to bet. At the 11's, you can get away with smaller continuation bets, although the tactic is overall less effective. I usually check beind here because I can't put him on any kind of a hand at the 11's. You're probably still ahead and he will rarely bet if you are, so folding the best hand is unliely. If you're behind, a lot of your opponents' hands won't bet anyway.

[Slim Pickens]

To clarify: One third of the time you will flop TPTK, which against two callers gets 2:1 pot odds. Therefore, you don't have to worry about figuring out which of times you miss the flop you still have the best hand. That's why discouraging action by overbetting is disadvantageous.

[swiftrhett]

I like your bet the best Slim. The other thing I would probably do here is go allin. I've been screwing around with AK early lately, and allin is just a pretty easy choice that you know is +EV.

[GtrHtr]

[ QUOTE ]
I like your bet the best Slim. The other thing I would probably do here is go allin. I've been screwing around with AK early lately, and allin is just a pretty easy choice that you know is +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're the guy that I keep doubling up on early when I get AA in LP. Sweet, thanks for the chips.

Seriously, why are you putting your tourny life on the line with a coinflip on level 1?

[swiftrhett]

I would not do this at the $22's, or anything higher than the party $11's. Ok, this is a super small sample, but going through poker tracker, this is what I get called with:
7cJc
AcJc
JcJh
QQ
TT
QJo

Basically, 80% of the time I steal the bets, and when I get called, I'm way ahead half of the time. I'm behind against AA or KK, sure, but that doesn't make up for the huge percentage of time I'm ahead against callers.

I believe in level one, the biggest donks who just want to level up fast are still in it, and it's great to be the one to take the chips that they want to give you.

[ QUOTE ]

So you're the guy that I keep doubling up on early when I get AA in LP. Sweet, thanks for the chips.

Seriously, why are you putting your tourny life on the line with a coinflip on level 1?

[/ QUOTE ]

[Slim Pickens]

I wouldn't stray too far from the optimal play with AK early. Limping is bad, as is a massive overbet (which I I don't hate with KK or AA in the 11's, but not AK). You'll never go wrong with the raising 3BB+1BB per limper and then check-folding if you miss the flop, 1/2-1 pot bet if you hit. The continuation bet of 1/2-2/3 pot when you miss is the "screwing around" that you could do.

[SonnyJay]

swiftrhett,

I just wrote a longer response to this type of argument in a thread yesterday so I won't do it again here, but just because something is +EV doesn't mean it's the optimal play. This kind of thinking
[ QUOTE ]
allin is just a pretty easy choice that you know is +EV

[/ QUOTE ]
can get you in trouble. You should be looking for the best possible play, and there will be situations that will have multiple +EV options. Just saying "This is +EV, so screw it, that's what I'm doing" doesn't mean it's the best play.

You may in fact be winning by playing in this fashion, but ask yourself if there's a way that's even better. Pay attention to Slim Pickens' advice. I think your overall gain could be even better playing that way.

-SonnyJay

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

I would have bet 75 pf, 100 flop, fold to his check raise. It is early, and you have nothing. He called your pf, bet and CR you on flop... my guess is that he has 2 pair or a set and is worried about the flush draw...