Flush draw. Got berated for being passive.

[droolie]

2/4 Party.

I'm in the BB on my first orbit and have no reads. I get 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif

MP2 limps. Button raises. SB calls. I call. MP2 calls.

4 to the flop for 8SB.

The flop comes 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif
SB checks. I check. MP2 bets. Button raises. SB folds. I call. MP2 3-bets. Button caps. I call.

3 to the turn for 10BB
The turn is the Q/images/graemlins/club.gif

I check. MP2 bets. Button raises. I call. MP2 calls.

3 to the river for 16BB.
The river is the 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
I bet the nuts(!?). MP2 calls. Button calls and proceeds to berate me in the chat box.

I think betting the river was a clear screw-up but I was hoping one of them would raise my bet. Kinda greedy and it probably cost me a bet. However if I had check raised button, MP2 probably folds and I might only get 2BB anyways. Weird situation.

The most interesting street I think is the flop. Most guys would probably have bet somewhere along the line but I'm not sure I dislike how I played it at all given my position to the pfr.

It looks nicely played to me. Betting or raising the flop won't buy you any free cards given your position and I think is EV neutral with two players already duking it out.

Betting out on the river is probably better than checkraising as both players are more likely to call (and the button may even raise) than if it got checked to the button and you raised (if you even got the chance to raise).

[flair1239]

On the flop you have enough outs for a checkraise to have value if you knew they would both call. However this assumes no one has flopped a set and a higher flush draw is not out.

As it is with no reads I really see no reason to checkraise here. I also am really not crazy about betting, the flop without some sort of read to clue me in on how likely the people are to fold/call/raise.

I would not bet the turn either.

The river I think your hand is disguised enough to checkraise. The 7 should not be too frightening of a card for either TP, overpair, or set to check through.

Other than that I am playing this the same way.

[brettbrettr]

Your hand on the river is pretty well disguised. I think, yes, you should prb c/r there.

Your play on the prior streets is 100% fine. Its good to keep people in when you're drawing. Repeat: its good to keep people in when you're drawing.

Of course, if you think your pair outs are good the c/r'ing the flop is a viable line to try to get this HU.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
Betting out on the river is probably better than checkraising as both players are more likely to call (and the button may even raise) than if it got checked to the button and you raised (if you even got the chance to raise).


[/ QUOTE ]

If both players call you get 2 bets on the river. If the button bets and you raise and the other guy folds you get a crying call from the button = 2 bets.

If you get reraised or MP calls the 2 cold, bingo. River is an easy c/r.

[shant]

I think you could bet the flop, but as played it seems you can checkraise the river.

[ QUOTE ]
If both players call you get 2 bets on the river. If the button bets and you raise and the other guy folds you get a crying call from the button = 2 bets.

If you get reraised or MP calls the 2 cold, bingo. River is an easy c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]

You missed option 3 - it gets checked through.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
You missed option 3 - it gets checked through.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or option 4. The ceiling caves in and everyone dies. But given that the ceiling hasn't given way yet I don't expect it to. Given the action I expect button to bet. Its not as certain as expecting the ceiling not to cave in. But its close.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you could bet the flop,

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I might like this more. The goal is to get at least 2 bets in each on the flop. Given the pre-flop action it could likely go you bet, MP calls, Button raises, you call. The way it wne tyou still got the bets in...

[KDawgCometh]

i think that the only thing that I'd do different is probably lead the flop, but the way you played it is fine. I also like leading the river, because these guys will possibly raise it, so you can get in a three bet. You played this fine, honkey was just mad about the result

[callmedonnie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If both players call you get 2 bets on the river. If the button bets and you raise and the other guy folds you get a crying call from the button = 2 bets.

If you get reraised or MP calls the 2 cold, bingo. River is an easy c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]

You missed option 3 - it gets checked through.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the heart hit I think leading is imporant because it is the obvious draw. With the straight I don't see anyone fearing that 7, looks like the perfect opportunity for a check raise.

[Dagger78]

Why is everyone advocating C/R the river?

If we C/R we get 2 BB from the button, and probaly shut out MP2 who's gonna call in this big pot for 1 BB. Plus the Button could raise getting us at least 2 MORE BBs.

C/R 2 BBs
Betting river 2-4BBs

What am I missing?
'

BTW, I'd lead the flop since I want to get alot of bets in here, we have no reason to think it'll be capped without our help.

[droolie]

The reason I didn't bet the flop was that I didn't want the action to go bet-fold-raise-fold, bet-fold-call-fold or even bet-call-call-fold. I'm OOP and then what do I do on the turn? (especially if it's bet-call-call-fold).

I was hoping the action would go mecheck-MP2check-buttonbet-SBcall-then I could raise or call or scratch my ass whatever. Even if it got checked through I was fine with it. As it turned out I don't think I could have played it differently.

As far as the river is concerned button is betting 100% of the time if it's checked to him. I hated my bet at the time because I had been so passive that my waking up must have been horrifying. However I had the nuts and thought this guys might just raise me. On the flip side of that a C/R is worse than horrifying. Do you call a C/R with a high PP after that action if you're button? Is there a chance in hell you reraise it? Does anybody on PP? I was getting greedy hoping the donk would appear less scary and button would punish my insolence.

Can you guys guess what these mooks had?

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is everyone advocating C/R the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems pretty clear that button has a big pair. He's going to bet this river. Its also fairly clear that MP is interested in this pot. He might call 2, might not. But I think the liklihood of either player raising your river bet after you've called on all streets is much lower than than the liklihood that one of the them bets when you check.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
The reason I didn't bet the flop was that I didn't want the action to go bet-fold-raise-fold, bet-fold-call-fold or even bet-call-call-fold. I'm OOP and then what do I do on the turn? (especially if it's bet-call-call-fold).

[/ QUOTE ]
I can't see the problem.

[ QUOTE ]
On the flip side of that a C/R is worse than horrifying. Do you call a C/R with a high PP after that action if you're button? Is there a chance in hell you reraise it?

[/ QUOTE ]
I can't see him folding, the 7 is scary but he has raised both the flop and turn. I don't think he'll 3-bet though.

[ QUOTE ]
Can you guys guess what these mooks had?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, but feel free to post the results.

[Dagger78]

Looking at it again, since MP2 bet/called the turn I think he wants a showdown and might call 2 cold. Good point, thanks.

[Nick C]

I think your flop and turn plays are fine. But I wouldn't criticize a flop lead either.

What's nice about the turn is that you have so many potential outs that you don't even mind all that much if a lot of bets go in (though it would be unfortunate if your outs were tainted by a bigger heart draw).

On the river, I can see checkraising, but I don't really think the lead is so bad. MP2 may fold for two more if you checkraise, and while Button really shouldn't put you on a 5, it's possible he'll get scared by the four-straight on the board anyway and check behind.

Last night I got berated for c/r a field of 5 on the flop with an open ended nut straight draw on an unpaired rainbow board. It was then that I vowed to never get aggro with a draw again. The beratings simply aren't worth the increased EV.

Seriously, I like the way you played the flop and turn. You gain very little by capping the flop and risk losing a costumer.

[homebrewer]

[ QUOTE ]

Can you guys guess what these mooks had?

[/ QUOTE ]

MP2 AQo or AQh and Button had AA or KK?

[droolie]

Results

<font color="white">Button had AA
MP2 had A8o! </font>