2 6-max hands... [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

Obliky

10-18-2005, 01:02 PM

All players are loose-passive (as usual).

Hand 1

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Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
3 folds, Button calls, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12 SB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (9 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

River: (9 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, Button folds.

Final Pot: 11 BB

Anyone like my line here?

Hand 2

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Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero raises, MP calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero calls, MP folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero raises, SB calls $1 (All-In), BB calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players, 1 all-in)
BB bets, Hero ????

I felt lost in this hand...

Koss

10-18-2005, 01:07 PM

First hand:

Bet the turn and try to fold the button. If the SB calls check behind on the river.

Is folding the flop too weak tight? What about folding this river with another player who coldcalled 2 on the flop still to act?

Second hand:

Call. You could've been behind the whole way, and if not, he just caught up.

jrz1972

10-18-2005, 01:12 PM

Hand 1 is just a more-complicated-than-usual variant of the beloved "I have KK and get donkbet when an A hits" situation. Folding the flop feels weak as hell, but you have two loose-passive opponents who raised and limp-reraised preflop, and SB doesn't seem scared of the A on board. Realistically I think there's very little chance that you're ahead and you're not folding anybody who holds TP.

I really don't like hand 2. Just raise the flop and go from there. I would want a stronger hand than this if I were going to slowplay.

Nfinity

10-18-2005, 01:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the turn and try to fold the button. If the SB calls check behind on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are we trying to get button to fold? 2 hearts? Cuz he won't. If he happens to have a gutshot, which is unlikely considering the stopper cards you hold, 10-1 is not that bad, loose passsive players call for less. If he has a 5 he is no threat, as he is only drawing to 2 outs at this point. Just go ahead and assume that he isn't folding if he has an A or a J.

As far as the river goes, I think it is a fine call getting 10-1. Button doesn't seem willing to offer up any more opposition or he would have bet the turn.

Nfinity

10-18-2005, 01:56 PM

You felt lost in the second hand because you didn't raise the Flop.

As far as the river, call because A-hgh bets this a lot.

Koss

10-18-2005, 02:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]

As far as the river, call because A-hgh bets this a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

After a turn raise from someone else? I'm not sure about that. I usually only see A-high betting the river on 2-paired boards where no aggression was shown. Either way, your hand is still worth a call, but I don't expect it to be good very often.

DCWildcat

10-18-2005, 03:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You felt lost in the second hand because you didn't raise the Flop.

As far as the river, call because A-hgh bets this a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I heart this

@bsolute_luck

10-18-2005, 03:12 PM

yeah i think i need discussion on hand #1 for my own sanity sake as i think this is an easy fold after getting bet into again after a preflop cap. i wouldn't care so much if it was Button, but by SB especially given LP read.

Nfinity

10-18-2005, 03:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
yeah i think i need discussion on hand #1 for my own sanity sake as i think this is an easy fold after getting bet into again after a preflop cap. i wouldn't care so much if it was Button, but by SB especially given LP read.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree with you IF SB was the one doing the capping. The capping here was done in such a donkish fashion that SB could possibly be compelled to assert his aggression with a big PP we beat, second pair with a decent gutshot, or even as low as KQ.I think this possibility, combined with the fact that the pot is fairly large, is decent enough excuse to take a stab on the cheap street. If we see anymore aggression after our raise its time to pack it in.

The turn is make or break time for this hand. If we had met with any aggression on the flop it would be fold time for us. Also, if anyone bets it's time to toss it.

On the river I don't think your pulling this in a whole lot, but more than 10%.

@bsolute_luck

10-18-2005, 03:37 PM

see i think the fact he WASN'T the one capping makes it more likely he has the Ace. but i'll have to agree the pot is big enough take a shot at it, but i'm interested in the plan for the just the flop if:

1. the preflop retard L/R 3-bets
2. we are 3-bet by SB

fold? call down?

David04

10-18-2005, 03:42 PM

Hand 1 looks good to me. I don't think you can fold the flop getting 13-1, even if you are drawing to possible 2 outs.

Hand 2, raise the flop. As you played it, call the river.

Nfinity

10-18-2005, 03:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
see i think the fact he WASN'T the one capping makes it more likely he has the Ace. but i'll have to agree the pot is big enough take a shot at it, but i'm interested in the plan for the just the flop if:

1. the preflop retard L/R 3-bets
2. we are 3-bet by SB

fold? call down?

[/ QUOTE ]

I call and fold the Turn UI.

lautzutao

10-18-2005, 04:37 PM

Hand 1 I bet the turn and check the river.

Hand 2 makes me sick, but I think with the board double pairing and being donkbet you have to fold. The ONLY way I call is if you've seen BB donkbet bluff before in a previous hand.

10-18-2005, 04:45 PM

We call since we have 1.5 outs to the nut straight and 2 outs to a set.

edit. How many outs are 2 cards to a gutshot? It cant be 1.5. Maybe its 0.5? I think its still enough for a peel though.

2+2 wannabe

10-18-2005, 06:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 I bet the turn and check the river.

Hand 2 makes me sick, but I think with the board double pairing and being donkbet you have to fold. The ONLY way I call is if you've seen BB donkbet bluff before in a previous hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

my advice in a nutshell

remember in hand 2 the SB is all in so you actually have to beat 2 people to win - I think you have to find a river fold

lautzutao

10-18-2005, 06:45 PM

Thank the gods there's a voice of reason/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Obliky

10-18-2005, 06:59 PM

Thanks for the replies.

Hand 1

It just felt too weak/tight to fold the flop, and in this case i didnt want to call as the donkey on the button might continue being a donkey and raise (i really didnt put him on a decent hand though). So i thought i would raise on the cheap and then give the hand up to any turn aggression.
I also prefered a raise to a call as this was a really weak table, and i thought it was quite likely i could get to see the river for free.

Obviously the trouble with this play is that when i dont hit im kinda forced to call on the end as ive induced a bluff.

I think the better play would have been to bet the turn and check behind on the river.

Hand 2

I really dont know why i didnt raise the flop...i think i was suffering from Fancy Play Syndrome during this hand. I did call on the river, though i had pretty much no idea what BB had (i admit it was a bad call).

Edit: Had an idea..it wasnt good.

Some more info on the BB: 60/4/1 after 25 hands
He seems to be quite passive with good hands post and pre-flop..prefering calling to raising. Not much else on him im afraid..he hasnt done anything really stupid so far.

Obliky

McGahee

10-18-2005, 07:52 PM

I don't understand why you raised the flop in hand #1 and not hand #2. I would fold the river in hand #2.

Obliky

10-18-2005, 08:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why you raised the flop in hand #1 and not hand #2. I would fold the river in hand #2.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah i admit i should have raised the flop in hand 2, i was going for a check/raise on the turn which wasnt a very good idea. I was getting fancy for no real reason.

detruncate

10-18-2005, 08:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
All players are loose-passive (as usual).

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are we raising the flop in hand 1? I'm not that worried about Button's l/rr, but when SB bet into a 3-bettor and a capper with an ace on board it has to make us wonder what a loose/passive oppoent has, no? The best draw is a gutshot. I also don't like a call -- we're inviting Button to carry on with his aggression. I fold unless I think SB is much more aggressive than you suggest.

I'm not sure why we're waiting for the turn to raise hand 2. We usually have the best hand and a third player is trapped. SB is also shortstacked and is likely to be playing aggressively with any semi-reasonable hand (if he has anything at all). Raise it up.

I want to call the river (and probably would have), but I don't think it's the right move. We can't love the river bet given all the aggression. The presence of a sidepot also has to be on our mind -- there's a not insignificant chance that we're trying to pick off a bluff in what amounts to a very small pot.