definitive sit-n-go strategy article???

is there a definitie sit-n-go strategy article or two out there? (and yes, i've searched quite a bit for one).

i see so much "keep your powder dry, and wait for huge opportunities" but the blinds start very low and move up very fast.

looking for someone who's actually done some simulation and math in writing the article... i mean, there must come a point where the blinds are so small that it's essentially meaningless if you call early and then get raised out of hand (example would be one million starting chips and the blinds are 10/20 - what would be the downside of calling every unraised pot pre-flop??)

i see some good stuff but most of it is just from rank amateurs like me... i wonder if one of the great poker writers out there has done anything???

thanks in advance!!

[Cactus Jack]

Oh, goody, let me be the first to set fire to this post. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Is it such a human thing to want everything to be easy?

If there were such a thing as a definitive article or two, would there be any point in playing anything out?

Would a writer who knew the "secret handshake" be an idiot to disclose it?

Finally, how can there be two of anything which are definitive?

And I bet I'm the only one who responds that isn't going to fry you. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Let me be the first to point out that there is an excellent FAQ at the top of the page.

CJ

[skipperbob]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, goody, let me be the first to set fire to this post. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Is it such a human thing to want everything to be easy?

If there were such a thing as a definitive article or two, would there be any point in playing anything out?

Would a writer who knew the "secret handshake" be an idiot to disclose it?

Finally, how can there be two of anything which are definitive?

And I bet I'm the only one who responds that isn't going to fry you. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Let me be the first to point out that there is an excellent FAQ at the top of the page.

CJ

[/ QUOTE ]

Can I be second? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Gomez22]

Your avatar makes me feel quite uneasy...

cactus jack,

do you not have anything better to do with your time??? it's really quite pathetic. and yes, it is!

are there not definitive books like sklansky's TOP???

[Nicholasp27]

basically, the standard abc 2+2 sng strategy is to raise qq+/ak in early levels, limp in for <10% of stack with pocket pairs and play them for set value only

once you have <10bbs, you push or fold; when u get to 7.5bbs, the blinds are 20% of ur stack, so u open up quite a bit...we then use ICM-based decisions based on instinct honed using sngpt (sitngo-analyzer.com) to decide when to push/fold on the bubble

the factors in determining if u should push/fold (in order)

a) blinds
b) stack sizes
c) position
d) villian (calling/pushing range)
e) your cards


beyond that, u can play more poker by loosening up earlier on, or u can work on your resteals and stop-and-gos and other moves when someone enters the pot before u on the bubble, etc to get better roi...but the above is the standard abc guide

if u are serious about sngs, get sngpt from that website...best investment u can make in sngs

[bones]

TOP isn't the definitive book on any particular poker game.

The Sng books that are out there (mcevoy/daugherty and a few others) are pretty bad, especially when it comes to endgame play. This forum IS the definitive resource out there, and there is tons of information to be found here.

Learn to use the search feature.

[downtown]

Sticking around these forums is the best thing you can do for your SNG game. Filter the noise and find the valuable information.

There is no definitive article - you just need experience. The search function here is your friend, too. Use + and - before +words +like +this -re to help with searches.

[MegaBet]

I feel in a helpful mood today /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Read This (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1918735&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1)

[citanul]

if someone could tell me when they find this article or book that would be excellent. i have been looking and looking and cannot find any definitive stuff. i feel like i'm not learning anything until i read the official definitive literature on the subject, so please, help me find it.

c

[Hornacek]

[ QUOTE ]
if someone could tell me when they find this article or book that would be excellent. i have been looking and looking and cannot find any definitive stuff. i feel like i'm not learning anything until i read the official definitive literature on the subject, so please, help me find it.

c

[/ QUOTE ]
VERY thinly veiled sarcasm... you're going to need to be less subtle next time.

[citanul]

THREAD HIJACK ALERT

Would people buy a book if it came out? I mean, the forum is here, would people pay say, $30 for a 300 page book (or more pages, or more $) that was actually well put together and well conceived, on the subject of say, SNGs, Final Tables, and home games (home games being closely and clearly, but strangely, related)?

c

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
THREAD HIJACK ALERT

Would people buy a book if it came out? I mean, the forum is here, would people pay say, $30 for a 300 page book (or more pages, or more $) that was actually well put together and well conceived, on the subject of say, SNGs, Final Tables, and home games (home games being closely and clearly, but strangely, related)?

c

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes.

[unfrgvn]

[ QUOTE ]
THREAD HIJACK ALERT

Would people buy a book if it came out? I mean, the forum is here, would people pay say, $30 for a 300 page book (or more pages, or more $) that was actually well put together and well conceived, on the subject of say, SNGs, Final Tables, and home games (home games being closely and clearly, but strangely, related)?
c

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course they would. First of all, your market is not limited to this forum. Second, most of the people on this forum have already proven they are interested in learning, they would certainly want to read the "definitive" SNG book. Can you name me a book that devotes even a chapter to SNG's? Some of the HOH examples are SNG's, but I don't really think the advice given in most cases is relevant to winning SNG strategy.

[Hornacek]

[ QUOTE ]
THREAD HIJACK ALERT

Would people buy a book if it came out? I mean, the forum is here, would people pay say, $30 for a 300 page book (or more pages, or more $) that was actually well put together and well conceived, on the subject of say, SNGs, Final Tables, and home games (home games being closely and clearly, but strangely, related)?

c

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I'd be willing to pay $132.56, but not a penny more.

[citanul]

patrick:

a) i'm glad you're posting a bit more in this forum. perhaps you were posting here some before and i didn't notice it, but i am glad that i am seeing you around more.

b) i guess i should get in better contact with unarmed and actually consider writing a book with him, or possibly just flesh out the notes i already have.

c

[citanul]

what's the minimum number of pages you would pay that amount for?

c

[PuertoKid]

[ QUOTE ]
Can you name me a book that devotes even a chapter to SNG's? Some of the HOH examples are SNG's, but I don't really think the advice given in most cases is relevant to winning SNG strategy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lee Jones "Winning Low Limit Holdem" 3rd edition has a chapter devoted to SNGs.

[Onaflag]

[ QUOTE ]
what's the minimum number of pages you would pay that amount for?

c

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming you're serious, the number of pages doesn't matter. I'd buy it.

The thing is, in the case of SSHE, it changed the way WE play, but it didn't change the way our opponents play, for the most part, especially B&M. There are more cardrooms to visit than one can begin to count and online poker is thriving.

Would that be the case with a SNG strategy book as well written and thought out as SSHE? I don't know. Kind of scary to think the "secrets" would be in the public domain (yes, I know this website falls into that category) and widely available in bookstores.

SNGs are for the most part restricted to a few good sites. Sure, you can find them live, but have to hit up WPT venues for round the clock action and at buyins some of us haven't worked up to yet.

Write the book cit, I'll buy it, but I fear the long term outcome.

Onaflag...........

[Cactus Jack]

[ QUOTE ]
cactus jack,

do you not have anything better to do with your time??? it's really quite pathetic. and yes, it is!

are there not definitive books like sklansky's TOP???

[/ QUOTE ]

Not quite as pathetic as your original post, but it's within range. A definitive work would be one, not one or two. You're asking people to give you what they've worked very had to obtain for themselves. Do the work, boy.

Surprisingly, there may be something good to come of this thread.

Citanul, of course people would buy a book specifically devoted to SNGs. Whether that book could be written and cover any new ground is questionable. Some play the push-bot way, by the numbers using sng-pt and ICM, and others have differing styles. How one could cover all this and not be extremely controversial would be a neat trick.

CJ--who guesses he really doesn't have anything better to do

[unfrgvn]

[quote
Lee Jones "Winning Low Limit Holdem" 3rd edition has a chapter devoted to SNGs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it any good? The book generally and the SNG chapter specifically?

Should bear in mind that the structure makes a great deal of difference. I play mostly 6 handed SnGs paying 2:1 with a good structure, so the mean stack on the bubble is normally 20 or 40 times the BB. (And I usually have more. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif) I don't think a simple ultra-tight push/fold strategy will work well in this case.

[MegaBet]

The book would of course have to cater for low, mid and higher buy-ins because of the different strategies involved. Maybe you could get input from the best players at those levels? Lorinda, Raptor and Curtains (in that order), and Gigabet at the ultra-high level, come to mind.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
The book would of course have to cater for low, mid and higher buy-ins because of the different strategies involved. Maybe you could get input from the best players at those levels? Lorinda, Raptor and Curtains (in that order), and Gigabet at the ultra-high level, come to mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

or i could just write it myself.

[Cactus Jack]

Perhaps you could use a co-writer and an agent? I'll be happy to provide both. Ok, negotiating with Sklansky may not be much fun. And having to submit more manuscripts to publishers is even worse. I managed to kick the writing habit. Won't go back. I won't. I won't. I withdraw both offers.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]

b) i guess i should get in better contact with unarmed and actually consider writing a book with him, or possibly just flesh out the notes i already have.


[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like a good idea. You would have a good chance of getting it published by 2+2.

BTW, I believe it is essential you maintain a stern tone and take a tough love approach to teaching these noobs, just as in your posts. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[sahala]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't know. Kind of scary to think the "secrets" would be in the public domain (yes, I know this website falls into that category) and widely available in bookstores.

......

Write the book cit, I'll buy it, but I fear the long term outcome.


[/ QUOTE ]

In addition to SSHE there are tons of books that cover low stakes hold-em strategy available at all bookstores.
You'll have to make a stronger argument that the general population is applying strategy effectively enough to negatively impact the average 3-6 game. The only thing keeping me from playing at the local Seattle cardrooms is the fact that it's more of a hassle and my hourly rate would be a lot less than 4-tabling the 22s on party.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
The only thing keeping me from playing at the local Seattle cardrooms is the fact that it's more of a hassle and my hourly rate would be a lot less than 4-tabling the 22s on party.

[/ QUOTE ]

so uh... the "only" thing keeping you from playing game A is that it's worse for you in every way you care about than game B that you also have access to?

interesting.

[sahala]

[ QUOTE ]
The book would of course have to cater for low, mid and higher buy-ins because of the different strategies involved. Maybe you could get input from the best players at those levels? Lorinda, Raptor and Curtains (in that order), and Gigabet at the ultra-high level, come to mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

The book would be successful even if it only addressed low and mid level buy-ins.

[adanthar]

I'm definitely writing a book at some point.

Look for it 3 years after the poker boom ends and nobody cares /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
The book would be successful even if it only addressed low and mid level buy-ins.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is both insightful, shows an abnormal level of understanding of the actual world, and is something i've been chewing on for a while.

i think the way i'm going to proceed is to prepare some text covering basics-mid and high-advanced, and see how it goes. but likely a first manuscript that would make it out the door would be like 4/5 "basicer stuff" and then 1/5 "advanced stuff." whereas the text i write would probably be like 40% basic and 60% advanced.

then again, stuff i put in one section, many others would probably put in the other. so i'll have to have some people look over it.

c

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]

then again, stuff i put in one section, many others would probably put in the other. so i'll have to have some people look over it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly my point, glad I could help.

[Jason Strasser]

dont use definitive and poker in same sentence

Where can we pre-order?

[MegaBet]

Haha, so the next time you berate a fish, or laugh at their awful calls, and someone asks you when your book is coming out, you can have some kind of answer! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Oluwafemi]

take your own money and self-publish your product. there are some very great books on self-publishing as well as websites.