Raised on the Turn

[Ted]

I made a deposit into Paradise to collect the bonus a couple of weeks ago, and have been getting beaten badly there. Following are two hands 50 cent/$1 hands where I was raised on the turn. On the first hand, I folded to the raise, and on the second I called down the raiser.

First Hand:

Two early position callers, I am in middle position dealt 8 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 8 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif and call, the cutoff calls and the blinds come along - six players see the flop.

Flop: 7 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/club.gif J /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif

The blinds and two EPs check to me, I bet. The cutoff calls, small blind folds, big blind and two EPs call.

Turn: 2 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif

Checked to me, I bet. Cut off and big blind fold. EP check raises, other EP folds.

I fold.

Questions: Should I have raised pre-flop? Should I have folded? What hand do you put the raiser on? (I figured a J and an overcard or three of kind)

Second Hand:

UTG Calls. I am UTG+2 and dealt K /forums/images/icons/club.gif K /forums/images/icons/spade.gif . I raise. Folded to the big blind who calls.

Flop: T /forums/images/icons/heart.gif 2 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 9 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif

UTG checks. I bet. Big blind calls. UTG calls.

Turn: 6 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif

UTG checks. I bet. Big blind raises. UTG folds. I call.

River: 5 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif

I check. Big blind bets. I call.

Big blind shows 9 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 2 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif , and his two pair take the pot.

Question: Should I have folded to the raise or re-raised?

Thanks.

[Homer]

Hand 1

Preflop - After two EP limpers, limp and try to play it multiway hoping to spike a set on the flop. If the first two players had folded, then you should either raise or fold, unless the game is very loose-passive and you expect most of the remaining players to limp after you if you limp.

Flop - Checked to in second to last position with second pair, I think I would bet as well, unless the game was loose and I would likely get multiple callers. In that case I would check and hope for a free card. If cutoff bet after I checked and there were multiple callers I would fold.

Turn - I would have checked. It is highly likely that at least one of your five remaining opponents has you beat, especially on a board like this with few draws to be calling the flop with. If cutoff bet and even a single player called I would fold. If cutoff bet and it was folded to me, I would probably call it down.

I agree with your fold to the checkraise.

Hand 2

I would have played this hand as you did. I don't think you can safely fold after being checkraised on the turn. BB could have top-pair and be checkraising in an attempt to push you off of overcards or could be semibluffing with a flush draw and/or straight draw (e.g. - Q8h). If BB is ahead with something like two-pair, which is a strong possibility, you have 8 outs on the river.

-- Homer

[RockLobster]

Hey Homer--

Hand 2

I would have played this hand as you did. I don't think you can safely fold after being checkraised on the turn. BB could have top-pair and be checkraising in an attempt to push you off of overcards or could be semibluffing with a flush draw and/or straight draw (e.g. - Q8h). If BB is ahead with something like two-pair, which is a strong possibility, you have 8 outs on the river.

Actually, it was an honest raise on the turn, not a c/r. But that's not why I'm here...

I wanted to ask about how incredibly raggedy the board was at this point (7s 5c Jh 2s). My first reaction was for hero to 3-bet his KK, but I know I've read that a raise on a raggedy board should be respected more so than on a scary board.

Calling down is probably the best action here. But how much weight do you place in the fact that the raise came with such a hideous board?