What is the likelihood of NYC card clubs becoming legal?

[KSOT]

Within the next few years?

My friend told me he read an article about how it might happen within the next 6 months, but he's not a terribly reliable source.

[BottlesOf]

[ QUOTE ]
but he's not a terribly reliable source.


[/ QUOTE ]

[KSOT]

Could you elaborate at all? Is it probably never going to happen or is it a possibility sometime in the future?

[other1]

You started the rumor, you elaborate.

There is certainly no way anything will happen in 6 months. Thats about 4 microseconds in political time. If there was a bill on the floor of the NYS assembly being debated as we speak six months for changing the law would be pushing it.. and there is no such bill.

[tonypaladino]

The problem is that gambling laws are controlled by the state governments. The NYC government has no power other than to decriminalize it by simply not enforcing the law, and even if they do that the NY state DA and police can just move in.

NY State will never change the laws because it is the most ineffective state government in the United States. No other state went 21 years without passing an annual budget on time. We have been passing and rejecting a death penalty law for over 10 years now, and the draconian Rockafeller drug laws have been in the proccess of being modified for the last 20 years.

The primary problem is that rural and subburban areas in Upstate NY are given unproportionate amounts of power in the state government compared to large cities like New York and Buffalo, and heavily populated counties on Long Island. The upstate "conservative" representatives of the government technically have more power than downstate, but in reality Albany cannot accomplish much without the cooperation of the NYC government, which has more inffuence with congress and other areas of the federal government than the state has.

<small political rant>
Note: I use "conservative" in quotes because a majority of republicans and those who call themselves conservative are not true conservatives. As a conservative, I feel the government should interefere with citizen's lives as little as possible, and the illegality of victimless "crimes" such as running gambling halls is a waste of government resources and an overstepping of its authority.
</rant>

[KSOT]

[ QUOTE ]
You started the rumor, you elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ]

...

I don't see any way I can further elaborate on my question. Where do you see me starting a "rumor?"

[4_2_it]

When you look up and see pigs flying it will be exactly 6.2 years before poker is legalized in NYC. Don't ask how I know this but let's just say I'm in tight with a dog named Peabody.

[BottlesOf]

Such a thing is not likely, and has been discussed numerous times in the past. The legal reasons have actually been layed out quite nicely in hte last month or two. I don't have a link handy, but you could try the search function. Perhaps someone else knows the thread[s].

It will never happen if you are talking about a general legalization of small cardrooms. In light of NY state's expansion of gaming over the past few years I would imagine that it may happen one day that a casino be permitted within NYC.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
It will never happen if you are talking about a general legalization of small cardrooms. In light of NY state's expansion of gaming over the past few years I would imagine that it may happen one day that a casino be permitted within NYC.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually think it's possible that gambling could become legal and near ubiquituous in my lifetime.

[KenProspero]

[ QUOTE ]
<small political rant>
Note: I use "conservative" in quotes because a majority of republicans and those who call themselves conservative are not true conservatives. As a conservative, I feel the government should interefere with citizen's lives as little as possible, and the illegality of victimless "crimes" such as running gambling halls is a waste of government resources and an overstepping of its authority.
</rant>

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if we want to get technical and all, YOUR philosophy sounds a lot like classical liberalism (which would make you a 'liberal' if the words kept their original meanings).

However in our modern society, terms like 'liberal' and 'conservative' have gotten all mixed up and have almost nothing to do with their historical antecedants.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
<small political rant>
Note: I use "conservative" in quotes because a majority of republicans and those who call themselves conservative are not true conservatives. As a conservative, I feel the government should interefere with citizen's lives as little as possible, and the illegality of victimless "crimes" such as running gambling halls is a waste of government resources and an overstepping of its authority.
</rant>

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if we want to get technical and all, YOUR philosophy sounds a lot like classical liberalism (which would make you a 'liberal' if the words kept their original meanings).

However in our modern society, terms like 'liberal' and 'conservative' have gotten all mixed up and have almost nothing to do with their historical antecedants.

[/ QUOTE ]

His view on this matter is more closely related to the current Libertarian view. I will say no more as this is not the Politics forum /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[sirpupnyc]

[ QUOTE ]
There is certainly no way anything will happen in 6 months. Thats about 4 microseconds in political time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally, yes. If Mayor Mike were on board, maybe not. (I don't know if he's a poker player, and if he is he can certainly find a local game that's not in danger of being raided...but he's managed to kick even the state into high gear once or twice.)

Even so, I doubt legalization would come without heavy regulation that would be onerous to what are essentially small businesses.

[arod15]

Slim to none. I just hope they stop letting celebs in. Its like inviting a raid...

[arod15]

Time would probably go up. Because most of these places dont pay tax if they were legal they would have to cutting into their profit. I cant imagine time charges not increasing a bit to compensate for running the place legally. Thoughts>

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
When you look up and see pigs flying it will be exactly 6.2 years before poker is legalized in NYC. Don't ask how I know this but let's just say I'm in tight with a dog named Peabody.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that Mr. Peabody, Sherman?

Anyway, there is currently a move in MA to legalize slot machines at horse tracks. Its not poker, but I am hopeful that it will someday lead to legal cardrooms closer than Foxwoods. That's a tangent from NYC of course but it is in a similar vein.




Mostly, I just wanted to show my knowledge of Rocky and Bullwinkle.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

Gambling is illegal under the New York State Constitution (with a zillion exceptions for state-sponsored lotteries, horse racing, etc.). The only way card rooms become legal is if (1) the NY Court of Appeals determines that poker is not gambling (like in California) or (2) the NYS Constitution is amended. Neither of these is likely to occur.

Now, there is the exception for gambling operations on Indian land... I am not sure that helps, but maybe we can sell a small piece of Manhattan back to the Indians... you know we really ripped them off on the original deal...

[ QUOTE ]
Gambling is illegal under the New York State Constitution (with a zillion exceptions for state-sponsored lotteries, horse racing, etc.). The only way card rooms become legal is if (1) the NY Court of Appeals determines that poker is not gambling (like in California) or (2) the NYS Constitution is amended. Neither of these is likely to occur.

Now, there is the exception for gambling operations on Indian land... I am not sure that helps, but maybe we can sell a small piece of Manhattan back to the Indians... you know we really ripped them off on the original deal...

[/ QUOTE ]

Gambling is not illegal in NYS. Only profitting from gambling is. The law specifically states that winning money on a chance proposition between individuals where no party is being paid a fee or retaining a portion of moneys wagered is legal.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

[ QUOTE ]
Gambling is not illegal in NYS. Only profitting from gambling is. The law specifically states that winning money on a chance proposition between individuals where no party is being paid a fee or retaining a portion of moneys wagered is legal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't try to play lawyer with a lawyer. You misquote the section of the law you are referencing, but it is irrelevant to what I wrote and to the larger topic of card rooms becoming legal in New York. But since you interjected, I will explain it for you --

NYS Constitution says:

[ QUOTE ]
...no lottery or the sale of lottery tickets, pool-selling, book-making, or any other kind of gambling... shall hereafter be authorized or allowed within this state


[/ QUOTE ]

But you can't be arrested for violating the Constitution, only for violating a law promulgated pursuant to the Constitution. And you know what? The Legislature passed just such a law:

[ QUOTE ]
A person is guilty of loitering when he...loiters or remains in a public place for the purpose of gambling with cards, dice or other gambling paraphernalia.... Loitering is a violation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now, this law may itself be unconstitutional, and private clubs may not be public places, and it is the position of the authorities in NYC that the players are not doing anything illegal sooooo the risk to you -- the player -- is minimal (other than what you have on the table when the game is rudely interupted).

Anyway, it may be an esoteric argument, but gambling is most certainly illegal in the Empire State because the highest law of the state -- the Constitution -- says it is.

[arod15]

thats what the police chief said. Its a quote from him........

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

[ QUOTE ]
thats what the police chief said. Its a quote from him........

[/ QUOTE ]

Which part? That's its not illegal?

You are correct -- it is the official position of the DA and the police in Manhattan that it is not illegal to play poker. Although I heard that during the Brooklyn raid last January some patrons did get tickets for loitering that were later dismissed...

Again, I made the generalization that "gambling is illegal in New York" -- which is, in fact, correct -- in furtherance of the discussion of card rooms becoming legal in NYC and not relating to whether players can (or will) be arrested.