Peyton Manning

Is not good at football anymore.

[imported_CaseClosed326]

You're retarded.

[TheRover]

[ QUOTE ]
You're retarded.

[/ QUOTE ]

...this is being very kind.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Is not good at football anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, he just was hot last year resulting in being overrated by the media. He's still the second best QB in the NFL, just like the last two years.

[LBJ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is not good at football anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, he just was hot last year resulting in being overrated by the media. He's still the second best QB in the NFL, just like the last two years.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eww...are you talkin Brady at #1?

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is not good at football anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, he just was hot last year resulting in being overrated by the media. He's still the second best QB in the NFL, just like the last two years.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, he's clearly behind Michael Vick. Remember: .680, .000.

[TheRover]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is not good at football anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, he just was hot last year resulting in being overrated by the media. He's still the second best QB in the NFL, just like the last two years.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, he's clearly behind Michael Vick. Remember: .680, .000.

[/ QUOTE ]

nh.

as soon as they dont allow qbs to run with the football ill tell you he is not a good qb.
til then keep thinking vick stinks and your wrong.

[lastchance]

[ QUOTE ]
as soon as they dont allow qbs to run with the football ill tell you he is not a good qb.
til then keep thinking vick stinks and your wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]
Peyton Manning's still better. He audibles, passes, and manages the game better.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
as soon as they dont allow qbs to run with the football ill tell you he is not a good qb.
til then keep thinking vick stinks and your wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is more valuable: Ladanian Tomlinson or Peyton Manning?
Who is more valuable: Mike Vick or Peyton Manning?

[benfranklin]

Manning may or may not be the best, but he is the hottest right now.

He is also the most annoying. Those TV commercials where he plays a suck-up fan of everyday workers are like fingernails on a blackboard. I don't even know what those ads are for, I just ignore them as much as I can.

Then tonight on Monday Night, they had him miked up. He sounded just like he does in those stupid ads. The guy just talks constantly. I don't think he even listens to himself, he just talks. When he is at the line calling audibles, he looks like a 6-foot tall bobblehead doll.

He's also annoying because he plays for the Indianapolis Colts. I was never a Colt fan back in the day, but anything other than the Baltimore Colts is contrary to natural law.

[JTrout]

[ QUOTE ]
Manning may or may not be the hottest right now , but he is the best .


[/ QUOTE ]

[JTrout]

[ QUOTE ]
he just was hot last year

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the funniest thing you've ever posted.

[wh1t3bread]

[ QUOTE ]
Those TV commercials where he plays a suck-up fan of everyday workers are like fingernails on a blackboard.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually like these commercials, especially when he tells that accountant that he has him on his fantasy team.

Anyway, Ron Mexico shouldn't even be in this discussion. It's Manning vs. Brady vs. McNabb period. I put Favre ahead of Vick too.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
he just was hot last year

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the funniest thing you've ever posted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Compare that year to any other year of his. Incredible statistically, end result the same.

[utmt40]

[ QUOTE ]
Is not good at football anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]


You suck at life.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
as soon as they dont allow qbs to run with the football ill tell you he is not a good qb.
til then keep thinking vick stinks and your wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is more valuable: Ladanian Tomlinson or Peyton Manning?
Who is more valuable: Mike Vick or Peyton Manning?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm taking LT(2) all day, everyday.

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
he just was hot last year

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the funniest thing you've ever posted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Compare that year to any other year of his. Incredible statistically, end result the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

Brett Favre: 1 career Super Bowl win.
John Elway: 2 career Super Bowl wins.

Tom Brady: 3 career Super Bowl wins.

So what you're saying is, Tom Brady is better than both Brett Favre and John Elway too, right? Football is still a team game, at least I thought it was.

Edit to say: You're right about the disappointing end of the season of course...but look at this year coming up. New defense and an offense that can still ring up anybody in the league. If the Colts aren't the class of the NFL this year, I don't know who is.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
If the Colts aren't the class of the NFL this year, I don't know who is.

[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to agree but, as always, all bets will be settled come February.

[Soul Daddy]

[ QUOTE ]
If the Colts aren't the class of the NFL this year, I don't know who is.

[/ QUOTE ]
Aren't the Colts always the class of the NFL after 6 games?

[Josh W]

[ QUOTE ]
It's Manning vs. Brady vs. McNabb period.

[/ QUOTE ]

Carson Palmer is really close to entering this discussion.

How can you put any current QB over Brady right now. The guy does it week in/week out without a marquee receiver. Dont get me wrong, I think Deion Branch/David Givens are quality, but they arent at the Harrison/Moss/Horn/Steve Smith level.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
Manning may or may not be the best, but he is the hottest right now.

He is also the most annoying. Those TV commercials where he plays a suck-up fan of everyday workers are like fingernails on a blackboard.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find those commercials insulting. Basically, he's making fun of every average joe who's a football fan.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's Manning vs. Brady vs. McNabb period.

[/ QUOTE ]

Carson Palmer is really close to entering this discussion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

[wh1t3bread]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's Manning vs. Brady vs. McNabb period.

[/ QUOTE ]

Carson Palmer is really close to entering this discussion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, very close. I want to see him beat a good team or two first, starting with the Steelers this week.

[Soul Daddy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's Manning vs. Brady vs. McNabb period.

[/ QUOTE ]

Carson Palmer is really close to entering this discussion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, very close. I want to see him beat a good team or two first, starting with the Steelers this week.

[/ QUOTE ]
I want to see him win a few playoff games first.

you suck worse cause you are dumb enough to think that i think peyton sucks. im just a bitter fantasy owner. i know defenses are just putting their safeties back and that is why peyton's numbers are down.

[TheGame1020]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's Manning vs. Brady vs. McNabb period.

[/ QUOTE ]

Carson Palmer is really close to entering this discussion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's had one good quarter of a season. I guess Big Ben is close to entering this discussion too then.

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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It's Manning vs. Brady vs. McNabb period.

[/ QUOTE ]

Carson Palmer is really close to entering this discussion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, very close. I want to see him beat a good team or two first, starting with the Steelers this week.

[/ QUOTE ]
I want to see him win a few playoff games first.

[/ QUOTE ]

So wait, the knock used to be "he hasn't won a playoff game". Now that he's won a few and took the Colts to the AFC title game, THAT'S not enough for you? Get off Brady's dick for 5 minutes and look at it objectively. Seriously.

[Soul Daddy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I want to see him win a few playoff games first.

[/ QUOTE ]

So wait, the knock used to be "he hasn't won a playoff game". Now that he's won a few and took the Colts to the AFC title game, THAT'S not enough for you? Get off Brady's dick for 5 minutes and look at it objectively. Seriously.

[/ QUOTE ]
Umm... You might want to read it again. I was talking about Palmer. Apology accepted.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I want to see him win a few playoff games first.

[/ QUOTE ]

So wait, the knock used to be "he hasn't won a playoff game". Now that he's won a few and took the Colts to the AFC title game, THAT'S not enough for you? Get off Brady's dick for 5 minutes and look at it objectively. Seriously.

[/ QUOTE ]
Umm... You might want to read it again. I was talking about Palmer. Apology accepted.

[/ QUOTE ]

OOOOOOOH SNAP!

edge, you really need to lighten up just a little bit with any colts discussion. any time someone says something negative about them, you pull out your guns and are ready to go to war. CHILLLLLLL.

but seriously. OH SNAP.

[Jules22]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Manning may or may not be the best, but he is the hottest right now.

He is also the most annoying. Those TV commercials where he plays a suck-up fan of everyday workers are like fingernails on a blackboard.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find those commercials insulting. Basically, he's making fun of every average joe who's a football fan.

[/ QUOTE ]

PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's Manning vs. Brady vs. McNabb period.

[/ QUOTE ]

Carson Palmer is really close to entering this discussion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's had one good quarter of a season. I guess Big Ben is close to entering this discussion too then.

[/ QUOTE ]

Carson played one of the toughest schedules for a QB last year and did a hell of a job in his first year as a starter. The difference between Carson and Ben is that Carson handles more of the offensive load than Ben.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Manning may or may not be the best, but he is the hottest right now.

He is also the most annoying. Those TV commercials where he plays a suck-up fan of everyday workers are like fingernails on a blackboard.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find those commercials insulting. Basically, he's making fun of every average joe who's a football fan.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a difference between "making fun of" and "parodying." I find that commercial amusing.

[PhatTBoll]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Manning may or may not be the best, but he is the hottest right now.

He is also the most annoying. Those TV commercials where he plays a suck-up fan of everyday workers are like fingernails on a blackboard.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find those commercials insulting. Basically, he's making fun of every average joe who's a football fan.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a difference between "making fun of" and "parodying." I find that commercial amusing.

[/ QUOTE ]
No kidding. Proof once again that no matter how innocent something is, there is some thin-skinned tool who will get offended by it.

As for Peyton...
He is my favorite player and plays for my favorite team, and I used to be the type that defended him all the time etc. But nobody is more aware than him what his shortcomings are and what he has to do to get over them. I think he has the ability, intelligence and work ethic to overcome them. Until then I will just have to feel the same way Bulls fans felt when the Pistons kept beating them in the late 80's.
He is coming close to the "Elway or Marino" crossroads in his career and it will be interesting to see how he deals with it. Now that the Colts have a defense the only person who can do anything about his reputation is himself.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Manning may or may not be the best, but he is the hottest right now.

He is also the most annoying. Those TV commercials where he plays a suck-up fan of everyday workers are like fingernails on a blackboard.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find those commercials insulting. Basically, he's making fun of every average joe who's a football fan.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a difference between "making fun of" and "parodying." I find that commercial amusing.

[/ QUOTE ]
No kidding. Proof once again that no matter how innocent something is, there is some thin-skinned tool who will get offended by it.

As for Peyton...
He is my favorite player and plays for my favorite team, and I used to be the type that defended him all the time etc. But nobody is more aware than him what his shortcomings are and what he has to do to get over them. I think he has the ability, intelligence and work ethic to overcome them. Until then I will just have to feel the same way Bulls fans felt when the Pistons kept beating them in the late 80's.
He is coming close to the "Elway or Marino" crossroads in his career and it will be interesting to see how he deals with it. Now that the Colts have a defense the only person who can do anything about his reputation is himself.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a Patriots fan, it will be hard watching him slaughter them this year. We should still be playoff bound, but only because we're in the AFC version of the NFC North (which...really just makes it the AFC East).

But once there, we'll probably just get slaughtered by Manning again. Ahhh, it feels good having such a good couple of years that thoughts like this don't depress you.

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I want to see him win a few playoff games first.

[/ QUOTE ]

So wait, the knock used to be "he hasn't won a playoff game". Now that he's won a few and took the Colts to the AFC title game, THAT'S not enough for you? Get off Brady's dick for 5 minutes and look at it objectively. Seriously.

[/ QUOTE ]
Umm... You might want to read it again. I was talking about Palmer. Apology accepted.

[/ QUOTE ]

My bad. Seriously. Everybody else was talking about Brady.

And to get it all in one post here, someone said that I need to chill out or something about Manning when people rip him? I'm chilled. Trust me. But I do take minor issue with ignorant people who just want to lick Tom Brady's nutsack and totally ignore the fact that he's really a merely decent quarterback with a fantastic team structure around him.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
he's really a merely decent quarterback

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that you lose all credibility when you write stuff like this.

[brettbrettr]

Edge,

Not valuing super bowls makes you a total jerkoff. I might be a merely decent poster but that's what I think.

brett

[imported_anacardo]

Brady is incredible. Calling him a "decent" QB is like calling Troy Aikman a "decent" QB.

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
Edge,

Not valuing super bowls makes you a total jerkoff. I might be a merely decent poster but that's what I think.

brett

[/ QUOTE ]

I never discounted Super Bowls, did I?

But seriously, I guess Dan Marino sucks, huh? Tom Brady is god.

You hopping on Brady's cock like this makes you a much larger jerkoff than you think I am.

The guy doesn't make many mistakes, hell, I'll obviously give him that. He's plenty reliable to not totally blow a game for you. Except against Miami, that is. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
he's really a merely decent quarterback

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that you lose all credibility when you write stuff like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bring me one statistic besides rings that says Brady is a better QB. Please. I respect the guy, I never said he wasn't a good QB. Of course, a guy who rode pine at Michigan for years before he started and backed up Drew Bledsoe when he got to the league (6th round pick), and never would've started if it hadn't been for a well-timed injury...yep, he's the best QB in the NFL, better than guys like Brett Favre and John Elway ever were (they've got fewer rings), and he's going into the Hall of Fame before he even retires.

I'd post the difference in Manning's career stats and Brady's, but I've done it before and it was ignored, so I'm going to stop arguing with people who refuse to even consider that Brady isn't the second coming of Christ.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
I never said he wasn't a good QB

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
he's really a merely decent quarterback

[/ QUOTE ]

uhhhhhhhhhhhh

[ QUOTE ]
Of course, a guy who rode pine at Michigan for years before he started and backed up Drew Bledsoe, and never would've started if it hadn't been for a well-timed injury...yep, he's the best QB in the NFL,

[/ QUOTE ]

What does his history have to do how he has performed on the field? Do you really want people trotting out a litany of players who weren't drafted high, yet were wildly successful in the NFL?

[ QUOTE ]
better than guys like Brett Favre

[/ QUOTE ]

Very probably will end up better than Favre. Brady is like the anti-Favre: Disciplined, team player, unflashy. The media can love the "gunslinger" image all they want, but the fact is that Favre has cost his team time and time again with his selfish undisciplined approach to games. His physical tools were so great that it frequently didn't matter, but in the end, I think Brady will be viewed as superior.

[ QUOTE ]
better than John Elway

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Elway is the greatest ever, though I don't really argue with the Montana faction. I don't think Brady has the tools that Elway did, but it's early in his career, and it's certainly possible that he could insert himself into the conversation at some point, even though I ultimately doubt he will.

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
better than guys like Brett Favre

[/ QUOTE ]

Very probably will end up better than Favre. Brady is like the anti-Favre: Disciplined, team player, unflashy. The media can love the "gunslinger" image all they want, but the fact is that Favre has cost his team time and time again with his selfish undisciplined approach to games. His physical tools were so great that it frequently didn't matter, but in the end, I think Brady will be viewed as superior.

[ QUOTE ]
better than John Elway

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Elway is the greatest ever, though I don't really argue with the Montana faction. I don't think Brady has the tools that Elway did, but it's early in his career, and it's certainly possible that he could insert himself into the conversation at some point, even though I ultimately doubt he will.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to not let it go unnoticed, Clark, I do respect you as a poster, and this is much more the type of debate that I like to participate in.

I know you aren't the one who said it, but earlier on someone trotted out the old "he's got the rings" argument as to why Brady is a better QB than Manning, and IMO, that's total bunk, and I think you know that too. Your take?

You're right about Favre's image, but I think his heart and his drive have made plenty of mediocre Packers squads perform much better than they should have. For what its worth, I think he's the primary factor in the 96 Super Bowl win over New England.

I also happen to agree with you on the Elway factor. Put together the fact that he's got the same type of head for the game that I think Manning has (to an extent /images/graemlins/tongue.gif) and ran the offense even better in the clutch than he did in the rest of the game, you've got a helluva QB.

So it turns out we do agree on some things. Better, Clark?

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
Is not good at football anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's one of the greatest regular season quarterbacks of all time. He's right up there with Fran Tarkenton, Jim Kelly and Dan Marino.

[brettbrettr]

Are you referencing a meaningless Miami MOnday night game from last year?

OK, let me ask you this. You're down by 2 or 4 or one score's worth of points in the superowl. There's one minute on the clock and your team is on its own 20. You can have any (active) quarterback. Who are you taking?

[brettbrettr]

I don't think any active QB will ever surpass Elway or Montana. I'm not sure which of these guys was better--I suspect Elway--but as good as Brady, and as good a Manning is, I just don't see it.

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you referencing a meaningless Miami MOnday night game from last year?

OK, let me ask you this. You're down by 2 or 4 or one score's worth of points in the superowl. There's one minute on the clock and your team is on its own 20. You can have any (active) quarterback. Who are you taking?

[/ QUOTE ]

1) Brett Favre. Even better than Peyton (IMO) in the clutch. The best in the game at the 2-minute drill.

2) Peyton. Yep, Peyton. This one IS because he's got better receivers than Brady does. He also runs probably the fastest no-huddle offense in the league and can read defense like nobody's business.

3) Now I'll take Tom Brady, because all he has to do is get to about the 30 and let a certain graduate of South Dakota take the field and blast the holy hell out of the ball. And I do, in fact, trust him to do that.

[holeplug]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you referencing a meaningless Miami MOnday night game from last year?

[/ QUOTE ]

It wasn't meaningless. They were still fighting the Steelers for home field advantage in the playoffs.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
This one IS because he's got better receivers than Brady does.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not asking you to pick a team. I said pick a QB. No matter who your qb is your wr's are Clarkmeister, Jack of Arcades and Voltron. Your placekicker is Sublime and Andy Fox is the holder. Still taking Manning over Brady?

(Favre is a good pick. I don't take him over Brady, but I can see it.)

I would ask that you explain this though: [ QUOTE ]
Even better than Peyton (IMO) in the clutch.

[/ QUOTE ]

What the hell does this mean? I'm not asking you to explain Favre's "clutchness." Its the "Even better than Peyton" thing that has me scratching my head....

[Walter Pullis]

Easy prediction.
Peyton Manning will someday win a Super Bowl. He will win exactly one.

What many posters on here overlook:
Players don't win SuperBowls.
Teams do.

[brettbrettr]

There aren't certain player who have more influence over the outcome of a game than others?

Of course. But it still takes a team, and a team effort.

Super Bowl winners:


XXXIX Feb. 6, 2005 New England 24, Philadelphia 21
XXXVIII Feb. 1, 2004 New England 32, Carolina 29
XXXVII Jan. 26, 2003 Tampa Bay 48, Oakland 21
XXXVI Feb. 3, 2002 New England 20, St. Louis 17
XXXV Jan. 28, 2001 Baltimore 34, N.Y. Giants 7
XXXIV Jan. 30, 2000 St. Louis 23, Tennessee 16
XXXIII Jan. 31, 1999 Denver 34, Atlanta 19
XXXII Jan. 25, 1998 Denver 31, Green Bay 24
XXXI Jan. 26, 1997 Green Bay 35, New England 21
XXX Jan. 28, 1996 Dallas 27, Pittsburgh 17
XXIX Jan. 29, 1995 San Francisco 49, San Diego 26
XXVIII Jan. 30, 1994 Dallas 30, Buffalo 13
XXVII Jan. 31, 1993 Dallas 52, Buffalo 17
XXVI Jan. 26, 1992 Washington 37, Buffalo 24
XXV Jan. 27, 1991 N.Y. Giants 20, Buffalo 19
XXIV Jan. 28, 1990 San Francisco 55, Denver 10
XXIII Jan. 22, 1989 San Francisco 20, Cincinnati 16
XXII Jan. 31, 1988 Washington 42, Denver 10
XXI Jan. 25, 1987 N.Y. Giants 39, Denver 20
XX Jan. 26, 1986 Chicago 46, New England 10
XIX Jan. 20, 1985 San Francisco 38, Miami 16
XVIII Jan. 22, 1984 L.A. Raiders 38, Washington 9
XVII Jan. 30, 1983 Washington 27, Miami 17
XVI Jan. 24, 1982 San Francisco 26, Cincinnati 21
XV Jan. 25, 1981 Oakland 27, Philadelphia 10
XIV Jan. 20, 1980 Pittsburgh 31, L.A. Rams 19
XIII Jan. 21, 1979 Pittsburgh 35, Dallas 31
XII Jan. 15, 1978 Dallas 27, Denver 10
XI Jan. 9, 1977 Oakland 32, Minnesota 14
X Jan. 18, 1976 Pittsburgh 21, Dallas 17
IX Jan. 12, 1975 Pittsburgh 16, Minnesota 6
VIII Jan. 13, 1974 Miami 24, Minnesota 7
VII Jan. 14, 1973 Miami 14, Washington 7
VI Jan. 16, 1972 Dallas 24, Miami 3
V Jan. 17, 1971 Baltimore 16, Dallas 13
IV Jan. 11, 1970 Kansas City 23, Minnesota 7
III Jan. 12, 1969 N.Y. Jets 16, Baltimore 7
II Jan. 14, 1968 Green Bay 33, Oakland 14
I Jan. 15, 1967 Green Bay 35, Kansas City 10

[brettbrettr]

No one is disagreeing with your mundane (non) point. If you read the thread you'd see that we are talking about differing valuations of players who have won super bowls. Clearly there is a skill to being able to perform in big games that some qb's have and others either have less of.

Incidentally, I'm reading a book right now called Crimes Against Logic. It attacks people who say things like "Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black" or "you're one to talk" because they don't address the statement or question being discussed they merely avoid the question by offering a mundane (non) point. Sadly, the author didn't provide a list of super bowl winning teams...

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
I know you aren't the one who said it, but earlier on someone trotted out the old "he's got the rings" argument as to why Brady is a better QB than Manning, and IMO, that's total bunk, and I think you know that too. Your take?

[/ QUOTE ]
When I called you a jerkoff last night I was drunk. Apologies. I also think you're probably talking about me here and I should clarify. I did not mean to imply that Brady is better than Manning b/c of rings. I don't really agree that Brady is better than Manning at all. But Brady is the best crunchtime qb in the league. This is what I'm saying. Hot and cold I think Manning is better. But in a specific situation, like the down by 6 one minute no timeouts, I take Brady and its not even close.

[pryor15]

[ QUOTE ]
The difference between Carson and Ben is that Carson handles more of the offensive load than Ben.

[/ QUOTE ]

that and accuracy.

with the balls Ben throws, it's amazing he hasn't thrown more INT than TD. hell, NE dropped 3.

I'm glad you're reading a book. Hopefully it has a chapter on comprehension.

[ QUOTE ]
If you read the thread you'd see that we are talking about differing valuations of players who have won super bowls.

[/ QUOTE ]

like Manning and Palmer and Marino?


Maybe instead of denigrating other posters (and having to apologize later for your stupor), you could spend a moment and see the point.

But I'm not counting on it!

Later playa.

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I know you aren't the one who said it, but earlier on someone trotted out the old "he's got the rings" argument as to why Brady is a better QB than Manning, and IMO, that's total bunk, and I think you know that too. Your take?

[/ QUOTE ]
When I called you a jerkoff last night I was drunk. Apologies. I also think you're probably talking about me here and I should clarify. I did not mean to imply that Brady is better than Manning b/c of rings. I don't really agree that Brady is better than Manning at all. But Brady is the best crunchtime qb in the league. This is what I'm saying. Hot and cold I think Manning is better. But in a specific situation, like the down by 6 one minute no timeouts, I take Brady and its not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes MUCH more sense than many of the arguments I've seen from many people (here and in conversations with friends) about how good people think Brady is. I think the separating factor in your argument will thus be:

Peyton hasn't been in many big, close-score, need to make the late comeback. Either they've blown someone out or they've gotten blown out. Of course, that's a lot to be blamed on the defense. I'll even go out and further clarify my opinion on Tom Brady. Good QB, sound throwing the ball. Doesn't make mistakes when he's got all day to throw. I think if you look at the occasions where teams have been able to pressure Brady consistently, that's where you'll see the majority of his mistakes made. So he's not going to lose games for New England most of the time. That said, he's not going to dazzle you with his numbers most of the time.

I don't know what happens for sure when you put Manning in a really close situation in a big game like the Super Bowl, but looking at how he runs the most potent offense in the league with incredible reads that he makes during play, I'd have to assume he wouldn't be the type to crumble. Yeah, I saw the playoff game against NE last year, and that was a cluster of mistakes so terrible by everyone on the Colts team that I can't place blame solely on Manning.

Basically, Brady is consistent, sure, but he's been picked up by his team for his entire career. Peyton got dealt a crappy team and never has had any defense until this year basically. Lots of arguments for both sides.

And as a closing note for the people who think I take this too seriously and whatever, I just really, really like debating sports, and this topic seems like it'll never, ever die. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
If you read the thread you'd see that we are talking about differing valuations of players who have won super bowls.

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The syntax of this sentence sucks. Prob why you're confused. My bad.

What I was talking about was a metric that values performing well in big games. Whether they be super bowls, playoff games, whatever. And players that can lead game winning drives at the end of big ganes, chit like this.

If you look at the comments about Palmer, you'll see that people have made the point that he hasn't won a big game yet. This is a good point and fits in with what we're talking about here. Marino is an example of a QB who did not win a Super Bowl but had big, big numbers. (I have no idea where he fits in otherwise and I didn't mentioned him so don't asl me.) Peyton Manning obv fits for obv reasons.

As for denigrating people and apologizing, Yes, I apologized for calling him a jerkoff. Yes, I think saying Brady is "merely average" is dumb beyond belief. So "jerkoff" wasn't the right word. Whatever.

[brettbrettr]

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So he's not going to lose games for New England most of the time

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I think you're severely underrating Brady. He's very, very, very good at reading a defense and getting the ball to the open WR. He's much better than QB that "won't lose you a game." Really, I think you should watch him more. He can pick apart a defense with the best of them.

As for Peyton, like I said and like you said, its really tough to distinguish a thing like comebacks and things like this when there are a slew of other unlike variables. But he needs to make it to the Super Bowl. So much the better if he beats NE to get there. I mean, yes, he's had good playoff games. But he's had really bad ones too. The two against NE. The one against the Jets was also horrid. (Clearly the whole team was bad that day and the Colts never had a chance.)

Overall, Manning has lost a lot of playoff games. I'm not saying its all on him. I'm just saying. The point is that there's always going to be people who look at that and say he needs to learn to win a big game. A lot of it is unfair b/c they wouldn't even come close to the playoffs w/o him. But, if you want people to start ranking this guy in with the greats, they have a right, IMO, to say, OK, lets see him win the whole damn thing. Lets see him beat NE in January. Lets see him win a big game all by himself when its all on the line. Totally fair, IMO. Totally.

[arod15]

Yes he is he is just not as good as last year....