your vote on 89s

[bawcerelli]

First hand of tourney for both questions. Assume pokerstars turbo's with stacks of 1500. You're under the gun. What are you doing with 89s?

[housenuts]

are you basing this off my post about the flush with 89s?

btw, i voted for fold in both.

[Fletch46]

So I'm in a pretty boring cash game and reading your post. Within a minute of answering the poll I get 98s UTG. I don't usually play it there but thought this must be fate. Hit a straight. Win a nice pot. But I would still fold in a tournament.

[lorinda]

There is a typo in your post. It says eight-nine suited under the gun.

Lori

[bawcerelli]

[ QUOTE ]
are you basing this off my post about the flush with 89s?

btw, i voted for fold in both.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I was curious how many people would fold this even at level 1. I think it's strange to fold it with 75BB.

[bawcerelli]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a typo in your post. It says eight-nine suited under the gun.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you mean?

She means you're an idiot for even asking this question.

Fold.

[DPCondit]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I was curious how many people would fold this even at level 1. I think it's strange to fold it with 75BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm, right, sure. Go right ahead and keep playing this monster.

Don

[bawcerelli]

[ QUOTE ]
She means you're an idiot for even asking this question.

Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

At a $15 if the flop hits you, you're going to double up against loose players.

What do you define as "hitting" you?

[bawcerelli]

Well, pretty much what you would assume. Something like an OESD plus a flush draw in a multiway pot against calling stations and LAGs.

[A_Junglen]

I hope your kidding,....fold.

[Exitonly]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
She means you're an idiot for even asking this question.

Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

At a $15 if the flop hits you, you're going to double up against loose players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, hitting you how? Usually i consider hitting a flop w/ this hand when i flop a DRAW.

--

this is a fold, middle to late position and i'll limp or raise with it, not UTG though.

[lorinda]

Assuming you are not joking from your responses, this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=3507686&page=&view=&sb=5& o=&fpart=1&vc=1) trollish thread may actually be of some use to you.

Lori

[bawcerelli]

Thanks for the link Lori. You're usually right, so I'm trying to wrap my head around this one. What if you're on the button and there's 3 limpers to you? Still fold?

[lorinda]

On Stars I may be tempted to call that one. It would depend on your confidence in your post flop play.

Out of position though, look at the mess the other guy is in, even with a great flop.

Lori

[SCfuji]

fold

[SCfuji]

dont try to convince yourself to play a weak hand out of position dude.

[bawcerelli]

I was pretty sure this was an easy limp at a low buy in and an easy fold at a higher buy in. Maybe limping this is a leak for me, I need to think about this some more.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
She means you're an idiot for even asking this question.

Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

At a $15 if the flop hits you, you're going to double up against loose players.

[/ QUOTE ]

... because it automatically hits them enough to go all-in. but with 0 equity?

Play some ring games and you'll see why this is trash, but it's even worse in tournies.

[SCfuji]

baWC

you really dont need to be playing this hand. maybe at like a 100 buyin non-turbo ill start playing this hand like 10% of the time just to make sure that im throwing some curve balls. just play straight up tight at the 15+1 turbos. and if you limp with the intention of trying to spike a flush draw make sure its the nut.

[checkers777]

clear fold.

If you limp, some donkbox with A6o is gonna raise to 100 and you're just pissing away chips.

[Hendricks433]

I said fold for both. Is it even close? I would limp in lp and maybe mp ish. But UTG with 89? OHH but its SOOTED!

[Hendricks433]

I think it might be vise versa. Since youll be able to semi bluff people of hands easier in higher buy ins. Is this correct?

[SCfuji]

then you should be playing every single suited/non-suited connector and semi bluff like crazy. but then your opponents will pick up on this. im just suggesting that these plays be used but very infrequently only to make sure that some of your regular opponents know you are capable of raising with sub-par hands from out of position. this will ensure that you get action on your good hands sometimes as well as your opponents possibly playing back at you with a worse hand. with the people at the 15+1 turbos that i play against i hardly ever see again so there is no point for me to take a -ev play.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, pretty much what you would assume. Something like an OESD plus a flush draw in a multiway pot against calling stations and LAGs.

[/ QUOTE ]

OESD + flush draw vs most any pair=coin flip for all your $$$


Seriously....

[bawcerelli]

True, but that's all in on the flop against a single opponent. You might get to see the turn for cheap, along with 3 or four other callers that will pay you off with top pair. I think some of you may be forgetting how bad the low buy in players are. Look at me for example, to some I'm making a clear -EV play here by limping, and I know a [censored] load more than the average player in those buy ins. So you can imagine the type of -EV plays they make. Though I'm gonna start folding this in EP since I'll have no position through the hand and may get raised PF and have to fold.

[DrPhysic]

Sitting UTG I think "would you fold JTs?" is a more interesting q. And I think I'd still fold.

Doc

[Hendricks433]

thats what I was getting at. At the higher buy ins your gonna see the same opponents alot more therefore thats where semibluffing and raising with sub par hands would be +ev. Also I dont think you should do it all the time. I agree with you that you should do it enough where if throws your opponents off and makes you unpredictable.

[Jbrochu]

I'm never playing this hand UTG in a $15. If I play it UTG in a $55 (which would be almost never) I'm bringing it in for a raise.

[lorinda]

[ QUOTE ]
Sitting UTG I think "would you fold KQ s?" is a more interesting q. And I think I'd still fold.

Doc

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Lori

[newhizzle]

what are the blinds in the firts round on stars?

i know in the party 55s+ im limping, i like to play a lot of speculative hands on the first round to see if i can get an early chiplead, with 1500 chips and in a turbo tourney, i think this is an easy limp

but then again, i like outplaying my opponents postflop and im not super weak-tight in the first rounds like everyone else, i like to actually play a little poker and not just wait till the bubble to start push-botting

[tigerite]

Sigh.. standard response from someone who is a LAG

Look, it's not the issue of playing this hand, it's the issue of position. Position, position, position. It should be the #1 thing on your mind.

[newhizzle]

[ QUOTE ]
Sigh.. standard response from someone who is a LAG

Look, it's not the issue of playing this hand, it's the issue of position. Position, position, position. It should be the #1 thing on your mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

i understand that im OOP, but its 15 chips, and i like to take some chances early on so im not stuck with everyone else pushing my next face card on the 75/150 round

[yid3655]

Do you play the $30's on party much Newhizzle?

[tigerite]

Whatever, 89s is too loose here. Of course in your argument it's black or white, either you play 89s here or you're "super weak-tight". Utter nonsense. It's a leak but keep doing it if you want.

[newhizzle]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you play the $30's on party much Newhizzle?

[/ QUOTE ]

i usually play the 109s and 215s, not because i think im qualified for them, but because i have a bankroll from limit and think anything less is kind of a waste of my time, SNG's are not my main game and i am not nearly as experienced as most of the posters in this forum, i pretty much play SNG's when i fell like gamboooling(i still think i have an edge and as far as i can tell im beating them), so im probly wrong, but i really do think taking a few chances on the early rounds is a good idea

edit: on the 30's i dont think you should be playing these hands because 15 chips is a bigger portion of your stack and its slightly less likely you can make people fold on the flop

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]

i usually play the 109s and 215s, not because i think im qualified for them, but because i have a bankroll from limit and think anything less is kind of a waste of my time, SNG's are not my main game and i am not nearly as experienced as most of the posters in this forum, i pretty much play SNG's when i fell like gamboooling(i still think i have an edge and as far as i can tell im beating them), so im probly wrong, but i really do think taking a few chances on the early rounds is a good idea

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you won't find anyone to agree with you. I also think youre making a big mistake jumping from limit straight into $109/215 and it's a recipe for disaster. SNGs are not "gambooling", and frankly, you're playing them wrong.

[newhizzle]

ive played all the smaller ones too in the past, its just not worth my time to play them now, i do think i generally play the bubble correctly, i just like to add a little bit of post flop poker when i play SNGs, and i am probably wrong

edit: all poker is gambooooling

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sitting UTG I think "would you fold KQ s?" is a more interesting q. And I think I'd still fold.

Doc

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, IF it were a 55 SNG, and I had a 89s UTG, I would rather play 89s for a RAISE than come in in any fashion with KQs. The only way I play these kinds of hands from EP is for a raise and only if I feel I might get paid off, and only if I feel I won't be dominated (actually domination is a minor concern because I won't be playing the hand out with 1 pr.).

In any regard, in this context I would value 89s much more than KQ...which by the way I toss from EP in early levels about 95% of the time.

[newhizzle]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sitting UTG I think "would you fold KQ s?" is a more interesting q. And I think I'd still fold.

Doc

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, IF it were a 55 SNG, and I had a 89s UTG, I would rather play 89s for a RAISE than come in in any fashion with KQs. The only way I play these kinds of hands from EP is for a raise and only if I feel I might get paid off, and only if I feel I won't be dominated (actually domination is a minor concern because I won't be playing the hand out with 1 pr.).

In any regard, in this context I would value 89s much more than KQ...which by the way I toss from EP in early levels about 95% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont like raising 89s here, in a cash game with deep stacks i dont mind it, but here the blinds are worthless, im looking for multiway action, and id like to get in cheaply, plus im probly never going to see half these guys again in an hour so my image dosent really concern me

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sitting UTG I think "would you fold KQ s?" is a more interesting q. And I think I'd still fold.

Doc

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, IF it were a 55 SNG, and I had a 89s UTG, I would rather play 89s for a RAISE than come in in any fashion with KQs. The only way I play these kinds of hands from EP is for a raise and only if I feel I might get paid off, and only if I feel I won't be dominated (actually domination is a minor concern because I won't be playing the hand out with 1 pr.).

In any regard, in this context I would value 89s much more than KQ...which by the way I toss from EP in early levels about 95% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont like raising 89s here, in a cash game with deep stacks i dont mind it, but here the blinds are worthless, im looking for multiway action, and id like to get in cheaply, plus im probly never going to see half these guys again in an hour so my image dosent really concern me

[/ QUOTE ]

You misread my post...I dont like it either. but, If I WERE to play it at all from UTG, I would raise it...but I wouldnt play it UTG so I dont raise it (maybe once in a blue moon). And if I were to play it, I would also rather have 89s than KQs.

[DrPhysic]

Probably right. I don't like very many hands UTG in early rounds.

Doc

[kevkev60614]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sitting UTG I think "would you fold KQ s?" is a more interesting q. And I think I'd still fold.

Doc

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

I see the argument, but passing on KQs even with this position and this early on is just too tight for me. I'd fold 98s w/o thinking about it, and I'd very likely fold QJs, but KQs I'd be raising here. You're right, Lori, KQs is the more interesting question to me. Who else folds KQs in this spot?

[splashpot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sitting UTG I think "would you fold KQ s?" is a more interesting q. And I think I'd still fold.

Doc

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

I see the argument, but passing on KQs even with this position and this early on is just too tight for me. I'd fold 98s w/o thinking about it, and I'd very likely fold QJs, but KQs I'd be raising here. You're right, Lori, KQs is the more interesting question to me. Who else folds KQs in this spot?

[/ QUOTE ]
If you play KQs early, you certainly shouldn't be raising it. I don't play it, but if I did, I would limp.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sitting UTG I think "would you fold KQ s?" is a more interesting q. And I think I'd still fold.

Doc

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

I see the argument, but passing on KQs even with this position and this early on is just too tight for me. I'd fold 98s w/o thinking about it, and I'd very likely fold QJs, but KQs I'd be raising here. You're right, Lori, KQs is the more interesting question to me. Who else folds KQs in this spot?

[/ QUOTE ]

Playing this hand for its value of cards, meaning, "Q high flop" or "K high flop" is trouble early on. So really, its value comes from the possibility of hitting 2 pr or better. If you limp and are raised 4 BBs, do you call? What if the flop comes 49Q rainbow? Do you lead? What if you check and villain raises? What if you lead and get raised 3 x your bet, do you call?

This hand will net you very little if not negative over the long haul...toss it at level I.

[Jbrochu]

I would much rather raise 8,9s from UTG at a full table than K,Qs.



- edited for grammar

[Isura]

This is a pretty clear fold, even in a cash game with 100bb stacks. Suited connectors make most of their money with semibluffing in position.