ugh ... blind battle

[newhizzle]

villain is 16/8/7 after 25 hands if that means anything

looking for comments on all streets, whats the best line to take in situations like this, and what the hell should i do on the river, check/fold?

Party Poker 5.00/10.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">8 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.00 SB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.00 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (8.00 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 11.00 BB.

[W. Deranged]

I think I can find a fold on the turn. You're not getting three-bet on the flop by no-pair hands often enough to merit calling down in this pot, and I don't think any line that involves "hoping for a club so I can bluff out my opponent" is even worth considering in a heads-up pot.

[shant]

What are his blind and steal numbers? You probably checked before playing back at him, but if you didn't, I think those are important stats to have on TAGs so you know which ones like to battle for the blinds and which ones are playing pretty straightforward.

[newhizzle]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I can find a fold on the turn. You're not getting three-bet on the flop by no-pair hands often enough to merit calling down in this pot, and I don't think any line that involves "hoping for a club so I can bluff out my opponent" is even worth considering in a heads-up pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

i mean its only 25 hands, but this guy has an AF of 7, sorry no real read, multitabling

i dont like folding pairs in blind battles against guys this aggressive, my plan was to check/call a non club river, but the club came and i didnt want to have to call a bet, i dont like my river play tho

[Piiop]

I don't like your attempt at the river, it's pretty bad. After all that and having it be a blind war and all I don't think he's folding anywhere near enough of the time to be profitable.

Also, I'd consider check-calling the flop and donking the turn.

[newhizzle]

[ QUOTE ]
What are his blind and steal numbers? You probably checked before playing back at him, but if you didn't, I think those are important stats to have on TAGs so you know which ones like to battle for the blinds and which ones are playing pretty straightforward.

[/ QUOTE ]

i didnt check, and hes no longer at my table, i think i def should have tho, i can check PT now, but it doesnt really help anything to know it after the hand is already done with

Noone folds this preflop vs. an unknown TAG? Maybe I'm too much of a puss. I would fold the turn here though.

[newhizzle]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like your attempt at the river, it's pretty bad. After all that and having it be a blind war and all I don't think he's folding anywhere near enough of the time to be profitable.

Also, I'd consider check-calling the flop and donking the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

whats your plan on the river, check/fold?

[Piiop]

I'd check-fold.

[callmedonnie]

yea, very ugh. fortunately i don't always get sucked into these, but from time to time don't we all. i fold the turn personally.

[Jake (The Snake)]

Against this type of opponent, I probably just call preflop. I think we give up a little value by folding, but maybe not.

The value of raising preflop OOP in spots like this tends to come from fold equity, and someone with those numbers seems to me like somebody who won't be folding easily postflop. So I don't like the raise here.

[Adam22]

calling in the sb seems pretty puzzling to me first in here. why would you do that and how would you play it afterwards?

[Jake (The Snake)]

Preflop play is not my specialty but I would be surprised if any of the three options preflop are vastly superior.

I love raising preflop in close situations because it makes postflop easier to play usually. I'm not sure it does that here against this type of player, so I'd rather call of fold.

Edit: Note that raising "first in" is usually meant for when hero is in MP or LP so that raising will help him get better position postflop. Here we are guarenteed to be oop postflop.

[Harv72b]

I check/fold the turn. You flopped bottom pair with a so-so kicker, and your best hope that you were good (that he 3-bet with a flush draw) just blew up in your face. So now all you really have left to hope for is that he's completely F.O.S., and I don't think you can expect a relative unknown to be playing a worse hand this strongly 1 in 7 times (and that's ignoring the extra bet you must be planning to put in on the river).

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
Here we are guarenteed to be oop postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless villain folds preflop, which is obviously what we're hoping he does.

Against a relatively unknown player who has looked TAG so far, I don't like openlimping anything from the SB. Except maybe AA. If the BB were loose/passive, I'd prefer completing preflop.

[Jake (The Snake)]

I missed that the read was over only 25 hands, which would change things a bit.

Also, isn't Tommy Angelo experimenting with calling out of the blinds more often or something like that? Anybody care to fill me in?

I just don't like raising in this spot where it seems extremely likely that villain won't be folding. If he does fold, then sure, raise her up.

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
Against this type of opponent, I probably just call preflop.
The value of raising preflop OOP in spots like this tends to come from fold equity, and someone with those numbers seems to me like somebody who won't be folding easily postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]
I like just calling preflop also. This seems to me like a hand worth seeing the flop with, but one not quite strong enough for a raise, and I'd be unhappy to have it 3bet.

I hadn't even considered the apparent low postflop fold equity vs. this opponent until I read Jake's post, but I think that's a good point adds supports to a call vs. a raise.

On the flop, I'd rather bet out. Bottom pair with OC kicker on a two flush board of the wrong suit for us and I don't feel our hand is strong enough for a checkraise. I don't expect to be able to fold Villian with a checkraise, so I'd rather not jam the pot that much. If it only got called, the turn pot would be a little smaller and betting out again might make a Villian call on that street a little more incorrect.

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
Harv72: I check/fold the turn. You flopped bottom pair with a so-so kicker, and your best hope that you were good (that he 3-bet with a flush draw) just blew up in your face. So now all you really have left to hope for is that he's completely F.O.S., and I don't think you can expect a relative unknown to be playing a worse hand this strongly 1 in 7 times (and that's ignoring the extra bet you must be planning to put in on the river).

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Piiop: I don't like your attempt at the river. After that and blind war I don't think he's folding anywhere near enough of the time for [a bet] to be profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
Against a relatively unknown player who has looked TAG so far, I don't like openlimping anything from the SB.

[/ QUOTE ]