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View Full Version : Folding QQ the pro way

lastchance
10-17-2005, 12:54 AM
Second hand, nothing has happened much. Party $22.

UTG raises to t30, UTG+1 raises to t60, Hero calls, folded around to UTG who calls t30 more.

Flop is AT5. UTG checks, UTG+1 bets t70, Hero folds, UTG folds.

Before you flame me, let me explain my reasoning. It's very likely that UTG and UTG+1 have Ax and Kx, where I'm only about 50% to win. By just calling QQ here, I get away from UTG+1 sucking out on me and making me lose all of my stack, but I easily win the pot when A or K doesn't flop.

Comments appreciated.
Shilly
10-17-2005, 12:58 AM
I do this too, I don't think it's that strange.

EDIT: I meant sometimes, but not really in spots like this. More like facing a 4xBB raise and I'm out of position.
mmbt0ne
10-17-2005, 12:58 AM
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
Before you flame me, let me explain my reasoning.

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I would never flame, but let's go ahead and see what you have to say anyway. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
It's very likely that UTG and UTG+1 have Ax and Kx, where I'm only about 50% to win.

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Why?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
By just calling QQ here, I get away from UTG+1 sucking out on me and making me lose all of my stack, but I easily win the pot when A or K doesn't flop.

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By re-raising preflop you can knock one, if not both, of these Ax/Kx hands out, which will substantially increase your equity. Or, you could get value against something like QJ, 77, etc.
1C5
10-17-2005, 01:01 AM
I call with JJ here PF and raise with QQ+.

Also call with AK usually.
applejuicekid
10-17-2005, 01:03 AM
[ QUOTE ]
where I'm only about 50% to win

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Isn't this good when you are getting 2 to 1 on your money? I think you are giving up way to much value here by not reraising.
mmbt0ne
10-17-2005, 01:04 AM
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
I call with JJ here PF and raise with QQ+.

Also call with AK usually.

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This is almost exactly how I play. I'll re-raise JJ occasionally, and sometimes AKs.

Actually, it's a minraise. I'm raising AK and JJ almost all the time. I'm in position, I own that punk.
1C5
10-17-2005, 01:06 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I call with JJ here PF and raise with QQ+.

Also call with AK usually.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is almost exactly how I play. I'll re-raise JJ occasionally, and sometimes AKs.

Actually, it's a minraise. I'm raising AK and JJ almost all the time. I'm in position, I own that punk.

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Yeah I should do that too to minraises more often...I do sometimes but not all the time.
Karak567
10-17-2005, 01:09 AM
Re-raise preflop, you want to get in against Ax or Kx and have a chance to double up in a 70/30 situation. If you are playing to avoid suckouts you are playing to avoid +EV situations.

Don't like it.
mlagoo
10-17-2005, 01:14 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Second hand, nothing has happened much. Party $22.

UTG raises to t30, UTG+1 raises to t60, Hero calls, folded around to UTG who calls t30 more.

Flop is AT5. UTG checks, UTG+1 bets t70, Hero folds, UTG folds.

Before you flame me, let me explain my reasoning. It's very likely that UTG and UTG+1 have Ax and Kx, where I'm only about 50% to win. By just calling QQ here, I get away from UTG+1 sucking out on me and making me lose all of my stack, but I easily win the pot when A or K doesn't flop.

Comments appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a pretty wierd post from someone that has been posting here as long as you =/

On what are you basing the idea that they likely have Kx or Ax?

Why can't you raise preflop and still get away from an Axx flop?

How does calling here work to extract money out of inferior hands?

I don't know, I just... I don't think is bad because it's abnormal... I think it's abnormal because it's bad.
Mr_J
10-17-2005, 01:39 AM
Am I the only one who thinks he's just messing with you all??
applejuicekid
10-17-2005, 01:42 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who thinks he's just messing with you all??

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I thought about it, but isn't this a somewhat reasonable way to play queens?
lastchance
10-17-2005, 02:01 AM
No, it isn't. Because your opponents have JJ/Ax/Kx a lot of the time here, and letting them get away from being a 70/30 dog with all of the chips in the middle is a terrible idea.

It is ok if this isn't a Party $22 and you are reasonably afraid of AA/KK from UTG minraiser or UTG+1, but in a Party $22?

You guys should know better than that.
Karak567
10-17-2005, 02:09 AM
[ QUOTE ]
No, it isn't. Because your opponents have JJ/Ax/Kx a lot of the time here, and letting them get away from being a 70/30 dog with all of the chips in the middle is a terrible idea.

It is ok if this isn't a Party $22 and you are reasonably afraid of AA/KK from UTG minraiser or UTG+1, but in a Party $22?

You guys should know better than that.

[/ QUOTE ]

You had me worried for a bit there bud, thought you fell off your rocker! Glad to hear it was just a lesson for some posters ;-).