NC: NL player moving to Limit

I'm very nearly done with Small Stakes Hold 'Em and I'm very ready to jump into some Limit to build my MTT bankroll.

I have about $200 to jump in with, and I really would like to start above the micro limiit games. Do I have to play in those right away, or can I (given the much smaller swings in limit) pop into a higher limit game than usual?

Im a successful NL player, but having a $200 br only allows me to play .25c BB. Im thinking that by playing in a couple bigger limit games I can make more than the $15/hr I will at 25nl.

Am I thinking along the right lines?

Thanks guys.

[shant]

Is $200 your total bankroll, or just the amount you want to set aside for limit play?

In the last two hours I lost $300 playing 3/6. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Harv72b]

Assuming that you will be a winning limit player (which is in itself a pretty big assumption), the accepted bankroll minimum is 300 big bets for the limit you are playing. This cuts down your risk of ruin to what most people consider an acceptable level, but swings of more than 300 BBs are not unheard of, even for very good players.

So going by that, if you have $200 to start with you'd be best off playing the .25/.50 game that you mentioned in your OP; this would also give you some time at a relatively easy level to adjust to the differences between NL and limit.

If you don't mind losing your $200 and/or have more money that you can use to reload, then by all means give .50/1 or even 1/2 a shot. Just do so knowing that, even if you are head & shoulders the best player at each of your tables, there is a very real risk that you will lose your initial bankroll. If you struggle at first in adjusting to limit play, that very real risk becomes a fairly likely outcome.

Holy cow, people are actually nice in the Limit forum... Im home!

200 is my total br, but is reloadable. I very much want to become a winning Limit player, and will do whatever it takes to learn to play right.

If I do try the .25/.50 game, what would an optimal $/hr be?

Thanks for the responses guys, very encouraging.

Oh, and I guess I should admit, I'm probably coming into this with prejudice, since as a NL player, I've always been under the impression that Limit was kid stuff. After talking to a couple of people, Im seeing the error of my ways.

[crunchy1]

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Do I have to play in those right away, or can I (given the much smaller swings in limit) pop into a higher limit game than usual?

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You'll find out quick that the swings in limit are worse than no-limit. With $200 and being new to the game - start at $.25/.50. If you're willing to reload (or drop down if you start off losing) I don't think there'd be anything wrong with starting at $.5/1 - on Party, this game is a cakewalk.

Also, check out the micros forum (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=micro). They're nice there too and will be more adept at answering what will be many "beginner" questions that you're going to have.

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
or can I (given the much smaller swings in limit) pop into a higher limit game than usual?


[/ QUOTE ]

I just wanted to chime in, as a big-bet player who recently started reworking his limit hold em game in anticipation of the great dry-up in NL cash games I feel is right around the corner (cue doomsday music), to let you know that there is much much more variance in limit hold em then in NL (unless you are a super-aggro LAG when playing NL).

[Dagger78]

I would recommend starting at the Party beginner tables at .25/.50 or .50/1. These games are super easy and will be good for getting your feet wet until you feel comfortable in moving up.

[BigBrother]

Having gone from small NL to limit myself about 6 months ago, I would say that you should consider a few things.

Playing the small NL tables is low variance in my experience. Yes, you lose your whole stack occasionally to a bad read or a terrible suckout. However, by practicing good table selection, you are always able to find enough terrible players that WILL stack off to you that overall most sessions end up with positive results.

The difference with Limit is the mistakes that the terrible players make only cost them single bets, and when they get lucky their bad play is rewarded by large pots. You have to relentless, consistent, and disciplined and it can take a loooong time to get their money. You can't make bold and daring moves to score a big pot.

Whether your hand is a monster or a simple top pair, you are making the same decisions: How to win an extra bet or two (or lose a bet or two less). So it takes a lot longer to know whether you are a winning player or not. And when the cards run bad for you, you can see amazing dips in your bankroll.

The standard advice of 300BB for a bankroll may be higher than you really need if yours is reloadable. You should be able to do OK in the $0.50/1.00 game, and I would recommend you start there for 10K hands or so. If you run well at .50/1.00 then you could consider moving up to $1/2 at $400 as long as you have the discipline to move back down if you start out losing. Resist going above $1/2 until you are really ready.


Your expected earn if you are a winning player is going to be in the range of 1-2BB/100 hands. If you get to the point where you are, say 4-tabling the 2/4 limit, at 240 hands/hr that's $10-20/hr.

This is probably NOT what you wanted to hear. There is regular, consistent money in grinding out small stakes Limit HE, but you have a looooong way to go before you are consistently earning above $15/hr (excluding bonuses).

[bobhalford]

I'd suggest maybe playing 1/2 6max. That's a good game to play in.