Need a little early level advice

[Cassidy]

I'm not a prolific SnG player and have mostly played the $11s on Party one at a time just striving to learn the game and hopefully become a winning player.

Tight early, loosen up later has been a workable strategy for me and I've found Aleo's guide very helpful. I have done ok over the 900+ games I've played since I started, enough to be ahead overall but with some pretty vicious downswings along the way.

One problem I often encounter with this strategy is that by level 4 I am (rather unsuprisingly) shortstacked usually with 500-700 chips. Although a steal or two can keep me alive for a little while I am to all intents and purposes in all-in or fold mode looking for that first double through which will give me a shot at an ITM finish.

Tight early on is fine but I have the distinct impression that I may be playing too tight. It is not uncommon for me to pass the first 3 levels without playing a hand (except from the blinds). As a result I feel that I am losing out on opportunities to accumulate chips in those first 3 levels.

I feel I need to get more involved early on but my mouse seems to have developed an strange affinity for the fold button.

I would really welcome advice on level 1-3 play so that when level 4 hits I have more options open to me other than double up or bust.

[Bigwig]

Well, it's possible that you're playing too tight early. If you're following Aleo's guide strictly, you are playing far too tight early.

But, one thing you must fight mentally, is that when you're short stacked late in the tourney, somewhat far from the money, you must be willing to toss aside the gap theory and call with more hands that give you a solid chance to double up.

[mlagoo]

One thing to remember about Aleo's guide is that it wasn't written to be a formulaic guide to optimal play at the PP 11s. Instead, it was meant (as far as I know), to be able to take someone that doesn't really play poker, and enable them to beat the PP 11s (or 22s, probably) for a reasonable winrate.

So it's just a starting point. After 900 games, you should really be at a point where you have noticed some things, and you should be able to take advantage of the players postflop and make some plays that will enable you to pick up more chips/lose less chips before level 4-5. It's always tough to think of examples, but just finding times that you SHOULDN'T C/B on a missed AK, and times that you should . . . seeing which opponents its worth calling a 3xBB raise with 77 against (who is going to give you their whole stack when you flop a set) . . . I don't know, stuff like that.

Do you multitable, if so, how many, and do you use any software (PT, PA, SNGPT, anything)?

Another thing is, you know, 400-500 chips at level 4 isn't a disaster. I mean it sucks, but you still have a bit of elbow room. Especially with the extra level stuck in there, you are not dead yet.

[suited_ace]

Start adding some hands from the SB, then from the Button and CO. Play level 3 more aggresively. If you have the cash for it, buy SNGPT. It's worth every penny.

[AleoMagus]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're following Aleo's guide strictly, you are playing far too tight early.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you will find a few VERY good players who will say just the opposite.

This is not to say that they are right, just that the most profitable deviations you can make from that guide are not deviations regarding how you play the early levels at all.

For the OP - Yeah, that guide was meant to take a player from a loser to at least break-even so you should by no means treat it as optimal. Still, if you find that you are struggling, my recommendation is not to worry too much about the early level advice. Many on here could probably post a winning record by sitting out of the first three rounds altogether. This would be a very silly thing to do, but you see my point. You are much better off adjusting your strategy on level 4+.

Being in push-fold mode by level 4 is not a terrible thing, and should be pretty common.

[ QUOTE ]
I would really welcome advice on level 1-3 play so that when level 4 hits I have more options open to me other than double up or bust.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's one: STEAL

Regards
Brad S

[zambonidrivr]

call reasonable raises with pairs
raise with prem hands
play good GAP poker.

on bubble push any2 when in position, as table imagage and stack management dictates.

[meanjean]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, it's possible that you're playing too tight early. If you're following Aleo's guide strictly, you are playing far too tight early.


[/ QUOTE ]


I've tried searching for this guide and can't find it...can somebody post a link?

thanks

[tigerite]

It's in the FAQ stickied to the top of the page..

Quote:
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Well, it's possible that you're playing too tight early. If you're following Aleo's guide strictly, you are playing far too tight early.



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I've tried searching for this guide and can't find it...can somebody post a link?



[ QUOTE ]
It's in the FAQ stickied to the top of the page..

[/ QUOTE ]
Hi everybody.
I´m new both to tournament poker and to this forum and this guide seems interesting, but I can´t find it among the FAQ:s. Am I looking in the wrong place??
// M

[kong98]

[ QUOTE ]
I can´t find it among the FAQ:s. Am I looking in the wrong place??

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I think the general feeling is that new people should be tortured and forced to use the terrible search feature, rather than providing easy links to things that those "in the know" already know about.

Here is a great thread to get you started: Favorite Threads and Links for STT FAQ v.3 (long) (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1918735&page=2&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&vc=1)

It has a link to Aleo's guide, but here is a direct one:
How to win at $10+1 NLHE Partypoker sngs (long) (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=&Number=591779&page=&v iew=&sb=5&o=&fpart=)

Kong98

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you're following Aleo's guide strictly, you are playing far too tight early.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you will find a few VERY good players who will say just the opposite.

This is not to say that they are right, just that the most profitable deviations you can make from that guide are not deviations regarding how you play the early levels at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Scuba Chuck]

I am just posting to re-emphasize Aleo's post. I too learned from the Aleo guide. It has provided me with the basis for my development in SNGs and poker.

Back to OP.

[ QUOTE ]
One problem I often encounter with this strategy is that by level 4 I am (rather unsuprisingly) shortstacked usually with 500-700 chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

This statement sticks out the most. My advice is that you need to get used to this situation, so much so that when you get here, you feel comfortable, and not tense. Relax, this is very normal. Furthermore, beating SNGs is about becoming a master at small stack play, and not about "how to build a big stack early so I can survive the allin frenzy later." Small stack strategy in general is a pretty simple strategy because it's a two decision concept, and it is either based on preflop hand strength, position, or both.

My advice regarding the Aleo-guide is to be sure you've printed the guide out and read it multiple times. Furthermore, you need to be sure and comprehend the Phil Van Sexton comments as well. Once you understand this strategy, and can weild it to your advantage, then begin to break away from it.

Scuba

[eagle]

If your alert, there are opportunities to pick off some limpers at level 3. Following the guide early may not be "optimal," but it's not that far off, especially if your multi-tabling at the lower limits.